Idle misfire cause possibly found.. Injector crush washer in pieces??

AcIdBuRn02ZTS

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Jun 30, 2013
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Hey guys..

Ive been dealing with issues on my 4bt for a month or so now.. I had noticed a very light misfire at idle and just off idle that seemed to go away once rpm picked up...

Then my ve pump started leaking between the case and head..

After getting that fixed and replumbing the feed and return lines with -6 stainless braided line (broke a return line during disassembly.. was cheaper to convert to all AN then replace it with a factory line)

Anyways.. truck ran good.. just still had a light misfire.. the engine just shook a bit more then it did when I first put it in the truck.

After bleeding and bleeding the injectors, I noticed that numbers 1, 3, and 4 made a huge difference with the lines barely cracked.. #2 not so much.. had to back the nut off 2-3 turns before it really started to misfire.. plenty of fuel coming from the line.. I figure maybe its an injector issue. The pump shop that helped me recalibrate my pump after I did the reseal offered to test the injectors for free.. so I decided to pull them tonight.

1, 3, and 4 came out easy with a light tap of my home-made slide hammer

(piece of bar stock with a 12mm 1.5 pitch nut welded to the end.. a weight in the center and a nut on the other end to act as a stop)

Number 2 injector wouldn't budge. After 30 minutes of beating on this thing with my slide hammer, I then beat the piss out of my slide hammer with a 3# sledge which slowly but surely drove the injector up and out of the bore.

The injector bore was coked with carbon as was the injector.. couldn't see the groove near the end of the injector body.. and there wasn't a copper ring on the injector like the other 3...

This is what I found in the bottom of the bore..
20131104_180704_zps1e10cd09.jpg


That's all I found of the copper crush washer.. it was blown to pieces and the pieces I found were deformed a good bit.

Any ideas on what would cause this? The injector retaining nut was tight and what not.

Anyways, still having the injectors checked out tomorrow since they are out.. but Im thinking the problem was the crush washer all along. I've never had the injectors out of this engine before and never had an issue until recently.

Could using starting fluid cause this to happen? I had to use some when I was working on the pump.

I just hope that none of the little pieces fell into the cylinder. I cranked the engine over a dozen times or so and blew all the junk out of the injector bores and I didn't hear any odd noises, etc..

Thanks guys
-Chris
 
I wonder if any little bit of debris in the injector bore could have caused a poor seal and an uneven surface. Over time and removal and reinstallations, the washers weren't inspected and became deformed due to an uneven surface and possibly started cracking. What's the history behind the motor? Where did it come from, etc.?
 
I bought it from a guy in MN who pulled it out of the delivery truck himself but ended up not doing the swap. Had 60k on a Cummins rebuild when I got it. Its now swapped into an '03 z71 Tahoe.. compounded with some light tweaking on the pump.. EGTs peak around 1150 and Ive got boost cut back to peak around 38psi (hx30w/wh1c compound system) to keep the head gasket happy until I can stud it which will happen this coming spring.

Anyways, Since day one it has always ran great and from the looks of it, had never had the injectors out of it since being rebuilt.

The rough idle showed up after coming home from the 4wheel jamboree in Indy this year.. was somewhat hard on it on the interstate close to home and blew a boot (damn near in half).. Installed a new boot on the side of the road (knew the ones I was running at the time were junk and had a set of good ones in the truck just in case).. drove it home with no issues.

I had noticed for about a week before the trip, the truck was getting hard to start. After the trip, the truck was puking fuel from between the pump head and the body and it had a rougher idle then normal.. almost felt like a weak motor mount then a misfire that seemed to go away when rpm increased.

When I resealed the pump, I apparently knocked it out of calibration because it wouldn't run for ****. The starter got weak and I hit it with starting fluid trying to get it to run long enough to bleed the lines and it kicked back due to the starter not cranking it over fast enough.

After having the pump recalibrated, it fired right up.. bled the injectors and what not.. still had the light misfire but it was very responsive throttle wise and drove fine. Tried to bleed the injectors again and that's when I noticed that the #2 injector wasn't making much of a difference when I cracked the line. Decided to pull the injectors and now I'm here...

Sorry for the long replies.
-Chris
 
Pump shop said number 2 was a bit sticky... but cleaned them all... pop tested them... and gave me new washers and seals at no charge...

Hopefully with the new crush washers... my misfire will go away. Still don't know what caused the washer to fail like it did.

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Looks like that was your problem. There shouldn't be that much soot all over that washer. I think they make a tool to resurface the seat area of the injector bore.
 
Injectors are back in and its running good yet again.

Still at a loss for what caused the failure.. anyone have this happen before?

-Chris
 
You won't like my theory, but it's plausible, especially since the 4b(t) engines are usually abused and overheated many times in their lives.

I think it's a severely cracked head where the injector tip passes through the bore.
9mm heads are particularly prone to this, but 7mm can also do it, if you overheat them enough times.

Best way to check is spray it down with penetrating oil while it's running and see if it pushes compression past the retaining nut.
A few bubbles are typical of a mildly cracked injector bore, but excessive amounts of leakage can exacerbate the issue by expanding the crack under high heat and loads... think thermal expansion.

Mark.
 
Its worth a shot...

The head is getting pulled this coming spring for studs...

Wouldn't a cracked head cause more noticeable issues?

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