In light of recent events.

[Big Thumper]

Heh, keyboard caging.

Mike P - here's where the 3600 lb. bogey comes from: http://www.sfifoundation.com/drag.html

Spec 25.5 - Full Bodied Car Stock or Modified/OEM Floorpan and Firewall with OEM Frame or Uni-Body Construction – 7.50 to 8.49 Seconds; 3,600 lbs. Maximum

That's the 'FULL' cage spec for the guys running sub-8.50 that would apply to these trucks (I haven't seen a copy of it). That's the spec that you need to meet / exceed if your vehicle weight / speed is above the line in the chart I posted earlier.

In a typical 'car', from 8.50 to about 10 - 11, you need the NHRA spec'd 8-point cage (to note - removable door bars allowed).

From 11-ish up, as long as the floorpan / frame / firewall aren't modified, you can use a 5-point rollbar.

I left my NHRA book at work - will grab it tomorrow and bring it home to run the equivalent numbers. The break is somewhere right in the 10 - 12 second range for Sportsman racing, between where you need the 8-point cage with full halo or only the 5 point rollbar.

 

[McRat]

This is supposed to be a discussion on what is the best safety equipment per times ran. It's the faster trucks that need to acess their safety equipment.

Beech Bend Raceway park will be doing the tech for the TS Outlaw Event. They go by NHRA rules.

I am sure you meant no disrespect, and there was none taken.

Sheila

Beech Bend? Is there two tracks there? The one I raced at didn't even look at our car, and let other folk run with a passenger into the 10's with no safety gear at all. Yes, we had rollbar, firejackets, SNELL, fresh 5-pt's, etc, like usual. It just wasn't needed to run 124 mph there.

----

But that's a winning idea.

If you and Dennis are so hip on boosting the tech req on these trucks, lead by example. 12.99 second rollbars manditory.

I'll bet you won't do it. Talk is very, very inexpensive. Have you got the courage of your convictions? Or are you just trying to be socially popular?

:tree:

:cheer:

PS - How come there is no golf-cart smiley?

 

[JQmile]

I plan on not putting a cage in my truck, although I only plan on running 12s, and I am low (2wd). I also have a '71 Nova that should run 9s with a full cage. I have a feeling I'll feel just as safe in the truck at 100mph as the Nova at 150mph. Either way most people drive about 70-80mph on the freeway, so I won't feel too crazy for doing a little over that in my truck. Most accidents I have seen on the strip (I'd say about 70%) are a result of coolant or oil being on the track, which is why I think we all need to look close at engine diapers, not just cages.

 

[JQmile]

I've been at an Outlaw street car race where they were allowing passengers in 8 second cars, and didn't even look at your car closely until it was running 9s. Everyone knew there was more of a risk than normal invloved.

As for talk about cage thickness and such, I would say the quality of the welding is more importaint than anything else. I've seen some super thick circle track cages (dirt track) break on the seams because they were welded after a 12 pack of beer.

 

[Bye Now]

Beech Bend? Is there two tracks there? The one I raced at didn't even look at our car, and let other folk run with a passenger into the 10's with no safety gear at all. Yes, we had rollbar, firejackets, SNELL, fresh 5-pt's, etc, like usual. It just wasn't needed to run 124 mph there.

----

But that's a winning idea.

If you and Dennis are so hip on boosting the tech req on these trucks, lead by example. 12.99 second rollbars manditory.

I'll bet you won't do it. Talk is very, very inexpensive. Have you got the courage of your convictions? Or are you just trying to be socially popular?

:tree:

:cheer:

PS - How come there is no golf-cart smiley?

I wondered how long it take for you to get on here and spew some more nonsense. Just so everyone knows I won the bet. Dennis has to take me to my favorite restaurant tomorrow night because I won the bet on how long it would take for Pat to spew again. I'll think about you Wolverine while I am sipping wine and eating filet. :hehe:

Thanks your my hero :thankyou2::hehe:

 

[LOGANSTANFORTH]

im lovin the picture Sheila, its awesome:umno:.....you guys should start a McRat Fan Club, sell super secret squirrel, blue EFI Live Decoder rings and wear white capes.....








sorry Pat, just havin fun at your expense......

 

[BIGRPOWR]

Beech Bend? Is there two tracks there? The one I raced at didn't even look at our car, and let other folk run with a passenger into the 10's with no safety gear at all. Yes, we had rollbar, firejackets, SNELL, fresh 5-pt's, etc, like usual. It just wasn't needed to run 124 mph there.

----

But that's a winning idea.

If you and Dennis are so hip on boosting the tech req on these trucks, lead by example. 12.99 second rollbars manditory.

I'll bet you won't do it. Talk is very, very inexpensive. Have you got the courage of your convictions? Or are you just trying to be socially popular?

:tree:

:cheer:

PS - How come there is no golf-cart smiley?

cant wait to see you at beech bend this year!!!

 

[Racebooths]

I would really like to see this thread get on track with the safety of 11.50 and faster trucks. This level is beyond most daily drivers however if you chose to daily drive an 11 sec truck you are probably smart enough to understand why the cage is required and should have no problem with the rules. If we progress to the point where we have enough 10-11.5 second daily drivers maybe we can let them race 1/8 mile without cages. Here is a thread about safety of all trucks where we can discuss other safety topics and McRats amazing ability to check everything and be such a great driver that he won't wreck.:hehe:oke:

The question I see being presented is Are the current cage requirements sufficient for the speeds and weights of these trucks?

I was talking with gary before the run and he was just wanting to make a pass without blowing off any hoses. He never planed on wrecking but had prepared for the worse beforehand by installing the cage. I saw the wreck and looked over the truck, track, and videos afterwords. Fortunately, the full strength of the cage was not truly tested. The truck left soft and was not running a 1/4 mile or the outcome may have been a lot different. What that truck did at just 91 MPH is truly scary. At just 91 he turned a guardrail into a ramp which launched a 5000 pound truck at least 75' through the air. Had he been going faster or landed on the roof who knows what would have happened. Would the truck and cage of sustained the impact or would it of folded under that kind of stress.

Cages are meant to protect you in a worst case scenario and by not looking into this subject we are doing our friends a great injustice. How are we going to feel if one of our friends and fellow racers is killed in a crash because nobody took the time to look into if current NHRA rules for cars are good enough to protect the truck racers. Again this is not about should cages be required but instead are the current requirement going to protect me or my friend in the event of a wreck at the speed these 11.50 and faster trucks reach.

Remember, if someone is killed or seriously injured others will step in and make rules for us!

 

[aircop]

JQmile you say you feel safe in your truck at 100mph and I don't doubt it. But you need saftey equipment in these trucks at the speeds they are turning. As a 20yr Sheriff deputy do you have any idea of the number of people i've seen killed in vehicles doing less then 70 mph. Racing your trucks at them speeds you need aditional safety equipment like it or not.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I thank that part of being a good smart racer is using good judgement. If your truck should have a roll bar or a cage good common sense should tell you to put it in. Only a dumb ass would race a truck at the speeds we do and not have something. I am very fond of my wifes husband and good sense told me to get a cage put in to keep him safe.
Will the roll cage save my life? I hope I never have to find out but I like my chances a lot better.
I saw with my own two eyes Gary's wreck and I am happy with my decision to put the cage in. I thank anyone who saw it will agree that having the cage was a factor in the out come of Gary's wreck. Without a cage who knows.
If you should have a cage (and you know who you are) do the smart thing.

< off topic but funny >

Funny, you location doesn't say Utah, it say's Florida

< back on topic >

 

[McRat]

JQmile you say you feel safe in your truck at 100mph and I don't doubt it. But you need saftey equipment in these trucks at the speeds they are turning. As a 20yr Sheriff deputy do you have any idea of the number of people i've seen killed in vehicles doing less then 70 mph. Racing your trucks at them speeds you need aditional safety equipment like it or not.

Most are head injuries. You wear a SNELL cert helmet everywhere you drive?

Or are you just another hypocrite.

Basically if you cannot go 100 mph in a straight line with no opposing traffic, on a flat, dry stretch of road, you either:

• Have a very dangerous vehicle that should not be operated at speed.
  
• Never drove a car before.

Yes, more folk are killed or injured driving to or from the track, not at the events themselves.

 

[Timbeaux]

Perrys, Pat, and others that wish to posts on topics other than the topic stated in the first posts need to start another thread. This thread is coming dangerously close to going into the crapper because of personal beef..... the topic at hand is the safety of trucks quicker than 11.50.... just so we are all on the same page.

 

[Dalpilot]

Basically if you cannot go 100 mph in a straight line with no opposing traffic, on a flat, dry stretch of road, you either:

• Have a very dangerous vehicle that should not be operated at speed.
  
• Never drove a car before.

Or blew a tire
or hit something slick
or lost a tie rod
or ???????????

Its got very little to do with the driver when something breaks.

We need safety gear in these trucks for when something goes bad, not for the everyday.

 

[getblown5.9]

Most are head injuries. You wear a SNELL cert helmet everywhere you drive?

Or are you just another hypocrite.

Basically if you cannot go 100 mph in a straight line with no opposing traffic, on a flat, dry stretch of road, you either:

• Have a very dangerous vehicle that should not be operated at speed.
  
• Never drove a car before.

Yes, more folk are killed or injured driving to or from the track, not at the events themselves.

Just this morning i was driving to work and I noticed the car in front of me blew a head gasket and dumped some coolant on the road. i was next in line with my jeep and as i went over the wet spot i got a little sideways...good thing i was only doing 30 and was able to keep from wrecking. :hehe:

11.50 and quicker trucks need to have *ADEQUATE* protection there for those cases where "sh!t happens" that you can't avoid. What if that 6.0 in front of you lays down a thin layer of coolant at the traps, and you are the next one in line on your next 10.60@120+ pass putting plenty of power to the ground, and god forbid it gets out of shape an you hit the wall and end up barrell rolling down the track. Is a simple single hoop rollbar gonna keep you alive?

 

[McRat]

I wondered how long it take for you to get on here and spew some more nonsense. Just so everyone knows I won the bet. Dennis has to take me to my favorite restaurant tomorrow night because I won the bet on how long it would take for Pat to spew again. I'll think about you Wolverine while I am sipping wine and eating filet. :hehe:

Thanks your my hero :thankyou2::hehe:

You're welcome.

What are the rules going to be at your event? :rules:


Step up to the plate.


You know what's best for everybody else, and your engineering skills and experience are better than the "nonsense" from the NHRA and all these dumb-ass racers; we need you to lead us poor fools.

 

[DavidTD]

Maybe to help keep this on topic...

Nobody is looking to make an immediate rule change that I am aware of. There are many things we need to look at as far as this incident is concerned. Until the better video makes it, you cannot tell what happened at the end of the track to tell if the cage was tested or not. But regardless, this accident tells us nothing about whether a cage can take a full out roll etc. This is just more info we can hopefully learn from.

I have been unable to reach Chris to discuss with him what happened. He was there, I was not. I am also hoping all of the diesel associations can come together to discuss this incident.

NHRA has rules set for mostly cars. Trucks are a very small part of their racing program. I would hope that each of you enjoying this sport will keep that in mind when any diesel race association formulates rules. Nobody makes rules for the fun of it. More rules, the more we have to enforce. But, one simple question that each of you can answer. If I was the one responsible for all of the staff, racers and spectators, what would I do?

I think the issues we need to discuss are. What can we do to make our trucks safer? What can we do to educate drivers and make sure they are capable to handle their ride? What can we do to make it safe as possible when something does go wrong?

Common sense is all that needs to apply here in your thought process. While some say they feel safe in these trucks or are capable of handling their ride, this is a one sided view. If there had been another truck to the left of Gary, they possibly would have been involved due to no fault of their own.

As someone mentioned earlier, with the advance in HP over the last couple of years, there are full size 4x4 in full street trim now running low 11's and quicker. They could also be piloted by someone that is doing this for the first time and has not one clue on how to handle the truck when something goes wrong. To make matters worse, we are heavy and tall. Nobody wants to wreck. Nobody wants to get hurt. But wrecks are going to happen, and somebody will eventually get hurt. We need to be real smart here. Not over react, but produce a calculated minimum standard we should obtain before trucks can run this fast.

 

[McRat]

Just this morning i was driving to work and I noticed the car in front of me blew a head gasket and dumped some coolant on the road. i was next in line with my jeep and as i went over the wet spot i got a little sideways...good thing i was only doing 30 and was able to keep from wrecking. :hehe:

11.50 and quicker trucks need to have *ADEQUATE* protection there for those cases where "sh!t happens" that you can't avoid. What if that 6.0 in front of you lays down a thin layer of coolant at the traps, and you are the next one in line on your next 10.60@120+ pass putting plenty of power to the ground, and god forbid it gets out of shape an you hit the wall and end up barrell rolling down the track. Is a simple single hoop rollbar gonna keep you alive?

What is going to save the spectators/crew?

Yes, I've slid through the lights on coolant before. I've been racing since the 70's and have 10lb of titanium in me.

No, I'm betting that the entire package of NHRA safety equipment (welded rollbar), factory safety equipment, driver's training, low-CG, and IFS 4x4 makes my truck safer than the shade tree engine swap trucks with bolted-in cosmetic cages and illegally high CG's. Certainly less likely to kill spectators.

Yes, we have BIG problem. These trucks should not be flying off the track and rolling.

That is what needs to be fixed before you work on making them more top-heavy and less stable. Yes, it is entertaining in a WWF sort of way, but I don't watch wrestling, so I'd rather make a safer racetruck than make a carnival ride for YouTube viewing.

 

[DoIt]

I think the issues we need to discuss are. What can we do to make our trucks safer? What can we do to educate drivers and make sure they are capable to handle their ride? What can we do to make it safe as possible when something does go wrong?

Common sense is all that needs to apply here in your thought process. While some say they feel safe in these trucks or are capable of handling their ride, this is a one sided view. If there had been another truck to the left of Gary, they possibly would have been involved due to no fault of their own.

As someone mentioned earlier, with the advance in HP over the last couple of years, there are full size 4x4 in full street trim now running low 11's and quicker. They could also be piloted by someone that is doing this for the first time and has not one clue on how to handle the truck when something goes wrong. To make matters worse, we are heavy and tall. Nobody wants to wreck. Nobody wants to get hurt. But wrecks are going to happen, and somebody will eventually get hurt. We need to be real smart here. Not over react, but produce a calculated minimum standard we should obtain before trucks can run this fast.
__________________
Ding Ding Ding !!! :thankyou2:

 

[McRat]

I am not adverse at all to making draconian rules for >=ProStreet. Require TF equipment. To be honest that will affect about 50 trucks by the wildest stretch of the imagination. That would suck but it wouldn't completely kill the sport.

I'm worried you folk are going to kill 12 second truck racing when there is no evidence it's more dangerous than in a car or on a bike.

Killing for sport is wrong. If you kill it, you should eat me.

 

[Timbeaux]

Yeah, the topic of the thread was not 12 second trucks Pat... We are talking about other trucks.......... Keep it on topic. Nobody wants to kill your 12 second trucks......

I'm asking nicely.