Injector to piston tolerance

TheBigNasty

TheBigNasty

Project bish
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
5,385
Obviously it is important, or they would not make different washer shims. Since the VP and CR's have transfer tubes you can't move the injector w/o making issues there so that brings me to ask this, just how much will it affect it? If you run a more conservative timing it should still spray in the bowl, correct? Mine are approx .035" off now because of the 12v .020 hg so before I tear it apart and mill the head down and put a stock 12v gasket on it to correct it I wonder if it will be absolutely worth it. I just really don't wanna tear it all back down after just putting it back together.:bang
 
I'll let you know tmrw. or Thurs...

I'm pulling my injectors and installing 12V .020 size washers to lower my injectors and see if it has an affect on my terrible rattle!!! And to see if it lowers timing enough to help with spool!!

Just worried abou the tubes sealing properly...But I have heard it's been done!!
 
I would think you would have to turn your tubes off the centerline and index during assembly to seal properly.
 
Doesn't lowering the injectors increase timing? I know it makes the engine more responsive and helps to unshroud the injector. We do it all the time on Deeres with the 10mm pencil injectors to help them start better and they run great. I also use the .020 washers in my truck and they seem to help, didn't notice any added/reduced timing rattle though.
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
Doesn't lowering the injectors increase timing? I know it makes the engine more responsive and helps to unshroud the injector. We do it all the time on Deeres with the 10mm pencil injectors to help them start better and they run great. I also use the .020 washers in my truck and they seem to help, didn't notice any added/reduced timing rattle though.
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From my understanding it should lower timing...technicly the fuel will be injected later....Lower timing helps spool up and response but Higher timing helps build the higher rpm power...

As for the box adjusting timing...Well it does, but since I've got cut piston, dual cp3's, lot of potential pressure, and who knows what else has affected the timing....The Smarty evidently Can't lower the timing enough for my truck not to rattle...

Still haven't played with the lower rpm/boost RP because MY FREAKIN GAUGE IS STILL ON BACK ORDER...:bang


Please, someone correct me if im wrong aobut the timing...
 
Bponci said:
I would think you would have to turn your tubes off the centerline and index during assembly to seal properly.
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Not sure I follow ya on this statement....But, I'm ALL ears if you wanna elaborate a bit...

thanks
 
Big Swole said:
From my understanding it should lower timing...technicly the fuel will be injected later....Lower timing helps spool up and response but Higher timing helps build the higher rpm power...

As for the box adjusting timing...Well it does, but since I've got cut piston, dual cp3's, lot of potential pressure, and who knows what else has affected the timing....The Smarty evidently Can't lower the timing enough for my truck not to rattle...

Still haven't played with the lower rpm/boost RP because MY FREAKIN GAUGE IS STILL ON BACK ORDER...:bang


Please, someone correct me if im wrong aobut the timing...
Click to expand...

After thinking about it... Timing isn't really changed the fuel still comes on at the same degree of crank rotation. It's just that the fuel is placed farther down in the bowl, like it is when you retard the timing. I don't really know what effect that has on timing rattle, if any, but hopefully it works. I've heard a few of those CR's with a timing rattle and it's kinda scary
 
What i mean is the tube hole will have to be turned off center the difference of the sealing washers height to alow the tube to seal at the injector properly. Then when installing them you have to index the tubes so they line up properly. Hope this makes more since.
 
Bponci said:
What i mean is the tube hole will have to be turned off center the difference of the sealing washers height to alow the tube to seal at the injector properly. Then when installing them you have to index the tubes so they line up properly. Hope this makes more since.
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Thanks man!!

I'll re-read this when I pull everything out and can put my eyes on it!!

Thx again!!
 
BlackSkyRacing said:
After thinking about it... Timing isn't really changed the fuel still comes on at the same degree of crank rotation. It's just that the fuel is placed farther down in the bowl, like it is when you retard the timing. I don't really know what effect that has on timing rattle, if any, but hopefully it works. I've heard a few of those CR's with a timing rattle and it's kinda scary
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In essence, it's like adjusting inj.timing a bit but your right..Just firing into the bowl more...

I hope it works too!!!!

Dang Right!! That sound SUX!!!!
 
Bponci said:
What i mean is the tube hole will have to be turned off center the difference of the sealing washers height to alow the tube to seal at the injector properly. Then when installing them you have to index the tubes so they line up properly. Hope this makes more since.
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The tubes only go in one way. The push balls on the tube have to be lined up or the tube won't even go in. You can't index them
 
triton said:
The tubes only go in one way. The push balls on the tube have to be lined up or the tube won't even go in. You can't index them
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YUP!! thats what was confusing me!!!

On the 24V head that I bought a while back, It did NOT have those push balls like the CR's.....

So, this may not work for that reason only....Much less whether or not it'll actually make a difference in the the sound!!!

But, what else do I have to do with my off time!!!!:bang
 
It's not like he is lowering his injectors 1/2 inche lower in the cylinder head ! It's gonna be probably less then 0.020 thou lower then stock, no big deal !!! The end of the connector tube is like a ball and the injector got the perfect receptacle for it !!! So, it's gonna seal for sure, belive me. Anyway, it work on mine:smirk:
 
you also have a 01 truck. His is a 05

My personal opinion is that it's gonna leak. The only way for it not to leak is to torque it down past the spec torque. What that will in turn do is, crush the tip of the tube to where the hole will close up making it smaller. It has no choice but to do that because you're forcing the tube into a hole smaller than the end of the tube.

The thing with Swole trying it is all good. Noticing it leaking will be after several runs on the motor and only if you go looking for it. That's not something I'm willing to chance.

Again, in my personal opinion, it's not goona do a thing. But, like Swole said... he doesn't have anything better to do
 
blacksmoke83 said:
It's not like he is lowering his injectors 1/2 inche lower in the cylinder head ! It's gonna be probably less then 0.020 thou lower then stock, no big deal !!! The end of the connector tube is like a ball and the injector got the perfect receptacle for it !!! So, it's gonna seal for sure, belive me. Anyway, it work on mine:smirk:
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Well from what I understand the stock CR washer is .060 and the 12V washer is .020, so that .040 lower.....

Im hoping like you!!

Your saying that it DID work on your truck??? What did you notice???
 
triton said:
you also have a 01 truck. His is a 05

My personal opinion is that it's gonna leak. The only way for it not to leak is to torque it down past the spec torque. What that will in turn do is, crush the tip of the tube to where the hole will close up making it smaller. It has no choice but to do that because you're forcing the tube into a hole smaller than the end of the tube.

The thing with Swole trying it is all good. Noticing it leaking will be after several runs on the motor and only if you go looking for it. That's not something I'm willing to chance.

Again, in my personal opinion, it's not goona do a thing. But, like Swole said... he doesn't have anything better to do
Click to expand...


If will drive it and if it doesn't make a SIGNIFICANT difference in the sound / spool...I'll just go right back to stock the next day!!!

Hopefully I won't have to though!!
 
Big Swole said:
In essence, it's like adjusting inj.timing a bit but your right..Just firing into the bowl more...

I hope it works too!!!!

Dang Right!! That sound SUX!!!!
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You haven't gotten used to the bit of rattle yet?
Billy
 
Billyram said:
You haven't gotten used to the bit of rattle yet?
Billy
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I wish it was only a "Bit"!!!


Tollerating it - YES!

Getting used to it - NEVER!!

:bang

Plus it seems to be making it spool slower...Less timing should help that a bit..
 
I know that there is a ball in there. I dont see why one cant remove the ball and index it differently.
 
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