Installed Injectors, Few Issues, need Suggestions

NickTF

NickTF

Single turbo turd.
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,887
Ok, I got the injectors in this weekend and have a few issues and want to gather some thoughts. These injectors are similar to the New Era 435 injector with just a few more tricks. Issues include:

1. I can't get the number 4 (4th cyl back from the front) injector to stop leaking. I took it apart twice and things I noticed were that the injector does not sit very tight in the injector bore. This is ofcourse unlike the stock ones I pulled out but I did not check any of the other injectors after I installed them (didn't need to cause they weren't leaking). I started with 50 ft-lbs on the injector hold down nut during the original install on all injectors and now have 65-67 ft-lbs on the hold down nut after taking it apart and double checking everything. Yes, new injector washers were used and I even switched up the injector washer and still couldn't get it to seal. I'm using the stock sized .060" washers.

2. When the truck goes into over drive I notice that it can hesitate real real bad at certain throttle positions. Mainly after I give it some pedal and then return back to steady state cruiz. I'm guessing this is a low pressure fuel system issue (need overflow valve, filter needs cleaned, bad lift pump, etc.)??? Or is this a side effect of my fuel leak in the number 4 injector? I'm awaiting the ability install my FP gauge as soon as I order the banjo bolt 1/8" fitting for the gauge. Going to order up a few fuel filters (to keep in stock in my garage) and a new overflow valve too just to be sure. If that doesn't fix any potential pressure issues then a new lift pump it is.

Truck is a 1997 Auto Std. cab 4x4 with 89,000ish miles on it.

I removed the stock injectors with the lug nut/pry bar method and gentle taps from a hammer on the pry bar to remove the injector. I did not see anything on the stock injectors which would indicate the boogering of the injector bores.

Please give me any suggestions to solve these issues. It's my only vehicle and don't want to ride around smelling like raw diesel or have a bucking bronco on the highway, ha:thankyou2:
 
On the leak, did you make sure the old washer came out?

On the bucking, you might need bigger DV's if you upgraded from stock.
 
PRattenbury said:
On the leak, did you make sure the old washer came out?

On the bucking, you might need bigger DV's if you upgraded from stock.
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Yeah, all the old washers were attached to the stock injectors. I used a screw driver to get the new washer out just to inspect and reclean etc. when removing the new injector when going back through it. Definately no washer in there.

Hmm..... bigger DV's huh, I was under the impression the 180 pumps didn't need bigger DV's for bigger injectors but i'm not sure, only heard that from reading, not first hand experience.
 
Yea 435's are some fuel you might want to spet it up to at least 191's or 022's for that injector. Let me know how you like them I was thinking about getting those injectors next...
 
you shouldn't need dv's you just might not get the full fuel capacity out of those injectors but the should be giving you plenty to run on. The leak is hard to say especially since it wiggles, just asking but figure you know this did you make sure that the align ball on the injector isn't chewed up? I had one that would stick and the injector would never sit all the way down with out a little tap on top just cleaned it up and it slides in good now. Also check the steel ring that goes around the injector make sure it's there and that is isn't messed up or flattened allowing the injector not to fit snug in the bore. Just a few thing but I'm sure you check that already.

As for the bucking can you describe it a little more detailed heard to picture what you are describing but it should some what like a miss but it should do it when slowly picking up speed to if it is a miss and from the injector leaking.

Hope that helps some.
 
KingS said:
you shouldn't need dv's you just might not get the full fuel capacity out of those injectors but the should be giving you plenty to run on. The leak is hard to say especially since it wiggles, just asking but figure you know this did you make sure that the align ball on the injector isn't chewed up? I had one that would stick and the injector would never sit all the way down with out a little tap on top just cleaned it up and it slides in good now. Also check the steel ring that goes around the injector make sure it's there and that is isn't messed up or flattened allowing the injector not to fit snug in the bore. Just a few thing but I'm sure you check that already.

As for the bucking can you describe it a little more detailed heard to picture what you are describing but it should some what like a miss but it should do it when slowly picking up speed to if it is a miss and from the injector leaking.

Hope that helps some.
Click to expand...

No, the ball and ring did look good but I didn't get out calipers and measure or anything so hard to say. Maybe I need to pay close attention to those items. It just doesn't seem like the injector should move in the bore like that. I used the lug nut on each to lightly tap them down to make sure they were seated. This particular injector just seemed to drop right in but they all sort of did. Thanks for the suggestion.

It does hesitate when slowly picking up speed but not nearly as much as when I give it lots of pedal and then return to steady state cruise where it does it the most. I'm guessing I just don't notice it in the first three gears because the converter locks in the 4th/O.D. gear right?
 
Ok, have a question about the plastic cones supposed to be around the injector body. None of my stock injectors had these cones and the only reason I knew about them is because my injector swap kit came with them. Would inserting these cones stop the leaks? I doubt it considering the other injectors aren't leaking and don't have these cones in there. Any ideas?
 
no need for the plastic, I've never installed them. I would put the thinnest sealing washers on there.

when you say it's "leaking", how do you mean? if it's leaking combustion, the sealing washer is probably bad/misaligned/etc. if you're seeing fuel coming from around the injector body between it and the hold down nut, it's not coming from the combustion chamber.

most common issue on that is where the line attaches to the injector. if the body is wet from the line nut to the hold down nut, try backing off the line nut and tightening it up past where it is now.

now, if you're seeing fuel bubbling up from around the injector body, you probably filled that pocket up with diesel when you bled the injectors, and while the engine is running, it's boiling off that diesel. as long as diesel isn't flowing down from the line, you probably don't have a leak, you're just boiling off that fuel
 
Forrest Nearing said:
no need for the plastic, I've never installed them. I would put the thinnest sealing washers on there.

when you say it's "leaking", how do you mean? if it's leaking combustion, the sealing washer is probably bad/misaligned/etc. if you're seeing fuel coming from around the injector body between it and the hold down nut, it's not coming from the combustion chamber.

most common issue on that is where the line attaches to the injector. if the body is wet from the line nut to the hold down nut, try backing off the line nut and tightening it up past where it is now.

now, if you're seeing fuel bubbling up from around the injector body, you probably filled that pocket up with diesel when you bled the injectors, and while the engine is running, it's boiling off that diesel. as long as diesel isn't flowing down from the line, you probably don't have a leak, you're just boiling off that fuel
Click to expand...

Ok on the plastics. I was told the thinner washers are even harder to get to seal. The thinest I had available to me were the 0.060"s that were provided on the injectors I put in and also in the injector swap kit I bought. I understand .020" allow you to get away with more timing but i didn't have access to those so the .060" went in.

That't the thing, the area from the line nut down to the hold down nut is dry, it's coming out from the hold down nut it seems to me. It's around the entire circumfrence of the injector.

Is it possible that too much torque on the hold down nut (I started out with 50ft-lbs and I think the recommended stock torque is 37ish ft-lbs) would deform the .060" sealing washer?

I'm not sure what you mean by bleeding the injectors? I didn't blead anything, I just fired the truck right up and it ran like a champ after about 5 seconds of ruff running. It's a consistant supply of leaking fuel so I don't think it's anything that was left over in the pocket, seems fresh to me for sure.

Thanks for the suggestions:thankyou2:
 
you SURE it's not running down the injection line? :confused:

could it be leaking from the return line? did you put new horseshoes on the return line?

I've never had a problem sealing the thin washers.

think about where fuel can possibly leak from an injector and you'll see that it doesn't really make sense that the fuel would somehow leak up from around the injector nut... there's no fuel in there unless it's running down from the injector line fitting or the return line.

if the sealing washer wasn't sealing, you'd be leaking combustion gasses, not fuel
 
Forrest Nearing said:
you SURE it's not running down the injection line? :confused:

could it be leaking from the return line? did you put new horseshoes on the return line?

I've never had a problem sealing the thin washers.

think about where fuel can possibly leak from an injector and you'll see that it doesn't really make sense that the fuel would somehow leak up from around the injector nut... there's no fuel in there unless it's running down from the injector line fitting or the return line.

if the sealing washer wasn't sealing, you'd be leaking combustion gasses, not fuel
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll keep checking but i'm pretty sure it's coming from the hold down nut area. I installed new "horseshoes" on the return line. Thanks again:Cheer:
 
If someone had taken the injector apart and not gotten it screwed back together properly (i.e. not tight), would it leak as Nick is seeing?

Just a though...
-Jay
 
i had my injectors out 6 different times because i could not get them to stop leaking. Go get the injector brush and make sure the holes are real clean of junk. And it was the hold down nuts every time.
 
Forrest Nearing said:
most common issue on that is where the line attaches to the injector. if the body is wet from the line nut to the hold down nut, try backing off the line nut and tightening it up past where it is now.
Click to expand...

That was my problem

with the same injector.. the threads on mine never did line up right so to find the leak, i took come compressed air, and while the truck was runnin i blew on there,and noticed that the fuel was spilling from the line attaches to the injector... loosened it, tightened it back up a little tighter than usual and no leak anymore...

U might also wanna check around the barrels where the dvs go if you still have fuel smell. I have two leaks there now, just loaned out my socket tho, so i cant fix it till i get my socket back..

Rick
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Hopefully i'll have some time this weekend to go through the entire process again to see if I can stop the leaks.
 
i had the same problem with my new injectors found out that 4 out of the six injector bodys where not tight ,,pulled them out for the third time and bam no leaks
 
impmouse said:
i had the same problem with my new injectors found out that 4 out of the six injector bodys where not tight ,,pulled them out for the third time and bam no leaks
Click to expand...

Oh wow, so you're saying the body itself is not screwed together tightly or was not in your case? I did not check that, I will check that when I pull it apart this weekend.
 
After goin through the injectors it seems I stripped two of the return partially and during re-assembly it leaked so bad it shot fuel up on the windshield. I have now put the stock injectors back in for the time being and purchased new return bolts and have no surging or leaking issues at the present time. I'm guessing they were related problems. I anticipate having the two replacement injectors for the performance injectors next weekend and will report back.
 
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