Making your own head studs?

carcrafter22

carcrafter22

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So I have a crazy idea, make my own head studs on the cheap using the highest strength studs or bolts I can get. I still need to do the research on different bolts and I may find that I cant get a strong enough bolt or stud to be worth the effort.

I know I can piece together a stud kit from ARP but the DO NOT MAKE A KIT FOR MY APP so I would have to spend around $500 for a peiced together kit.

How many of you think I'm nuts, stupid or just plain cheap? alot of you I'm sure.

I'm just a hotrodder and like to find ways of doing things on my own for cheap so I have more money for the go fast goodies I cant make myself like turbos so take it easy on me please.


My engine takes 12mm studs so what would be the minimum psi rating I need to look for? Have any of you dont this on your cummins? Is there a certain type of material you would prefer? What grade of bolt? 10.9?

Lets hear some opinions and experiences.
 
carcrafter22 said:
So I have a crazy idea, make my own head studs on the cheap using the highest strength studs or bolts I can get. I still need to do the research on different bolts and I may find that I cant get a strong enough bolt or stud to be worth the effort.

I know I can piece together a stud kit from ARP but the DO NOT MAKE A KIT FOR MY APP so I would have to spend around $500 for a peiced together kit.

How many of you think I'm nuts, stupid or just plain cheap? alot of you I'm sure.

I'm just a hotrodder and like to find ways of doing things on my own for cheap so I have more money for the go fast goodies I cant make myself like turbos so take it easy on me please.


My engine takes 12mm studs so what would be the minimum psi rating I need to look for? Have any of you dont this on your cummins? Is there a certain type of material you would prefer? What grade of bolt? 10.9?

Lets hear some opinions and experiences.
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Call Greg Hogue (comp461) When I needed custom stuff he got ARP to do it for me. Price was not that bad at all.
 
If you can roll the threads I say go for it, but if you have to cut them you might want to consider looking at the arp stuff or keep using the bolts IMHO.
 
Thanks Johnboy, I have the pieces for my engine already from ARP, I was just trying to spark some discussion on the subject. I know it sounds kinda nuts I just wanted to get opinions, if it sounds plausable I would try it on my engine.
 
heres what I was thinking abouts

If you get to strong of metal (non elastic) the studs may be able to hold very tight, but after a while of vibration and flex I would think they may break easily.

If you go too soft of metal (elastic) then the studs will just stretch and you wont have enough hold strenght on the head.

Therefor I would think that you would need a metal that is tough, which means it can take a beating and not break.

This would probably be done by some sort of quenching meathod or some kind of slow cool down or the combination of the both. (something ARP has figured out already) at least thats what I would think......

just my 2 cents, take it for whats its worth but I by no means know much of anything about head studs
 
Keep in mind also, that you can alter the thread size/pitch in the block itself to possibly accomodate any particular studs you find already in production that are close enough in length but that might not have happened to match your exact size/pitch of the existing holes in the block.

Drilling out a hole and rethreading it isn't exactly the metalurgical science that making a set of studs would be.
 
Charles said:
Keep in mind also, that you can alter the thread size/pitch in the block itself to possibly accomodate any particular studs you find already in production that are close enough in length but that might not have happened to match your exact size/pitch of the existing holes in the block.

Drilling out a hole and rethreading it isn't exactly the metalurgical science that making a set of studs would be.
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That is exactly what I was thinking, what about stepping up to 14mm or 9/16" studs? Couldnt this be done with the engine together? I would assume a magnetic virtical bracket with a drill attached to it could be made very easily, tape up all the holes including piston holes and drill to the proper depth, open up the holes in the head and have at it. Then you could get plenty of strength with a much cheaper solution, I dont include my time since I like doing this stuff and if you get to it I dont think this would take that long to do.
 
carcrafter22 said:
That is exactly what I was thinking, what about stepping up to 14mm or 9/16" studs? Couldnt this be done with the engine together? I would assume a magnetic virtical bracket with a drill attached to it could be made very easily, tape up all the holes including piston holes and drill to the proper depth, open up the holes in the head and have at it. Then you could get plenty of strength with a much cheaper solution, I dont include my time since I like doing this stuff and if you get to it I dont think this would take that long to do.
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It could be done. But you would need to be ver careful to make sure the redrilled and tapped hole is in the correct postion and square to the head surface. Also you want to releave the first coulpe threads with a counterbore. You will need to make sure you have enough clearence in the truu holes in the head for the larger stud.

Also can be done with an assemble short block, But I would much pefer it to be done on a machine tool such as a mill to help insure the correct postioning of the holes and there squareness to the deck.
carcrafter22 said:
On that note whats stronger coarse thread or fine thread?
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Depends. Generally finer, but you can go to fine and loose contact area. Courser threads have a smaller minor diameter. A stud is only as strong as its small area which is generally the minor thread diameter.
 
i doubt you could get the holes exactly where they need to be with a drill.. if i was thinking about doing this i would take it to a machine shop and have them use a big vertical or horizonal mill and drill the holes ~.005" under then use a reamer, that would be on the clearance holes on the head. generally a drill bit will follow the easiest path so as far as the block goes you could possibly do that with a drill..

look at it this way, if you ruin even one of the clearance holes in the head, how much will it cost to replace it?
probably more than what a set of studs will run you.
 
bna5017 said:
i doubt you could get the holes exactly where they need to be with a drill.. if i was thinking about doing this i would take it to a machine shop and have them use a big vertical or horizonal mill and drill the holes ~.005" under then use a reamer, that would be on the clearance holes on the head. generally a drill bit will follow the easiest path so as far as the block goes you could possibly do that with a drill..

look at it this way, if you ruin even one of the clearance holes in the head, how much will it cost to replace it?
probably more than what a set of studs will run you.
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A reamer will make the diameter of the hole a ton more accurate than a drill bit but as far as drilling the hole to be tapped, use an indicator to find the center and go in with an end mill. If you are making a new hole, use a spot drill first. You won't bolts in your hardware store worth a crap to use in place of arp's. Even though they are larger, titanium or other aircraft alloy's, plus heat treating or cryogenic treating is 20 times stronger than any stainless steel bolt you'll find.....
 
Dockboy said:
http://www.timesert.com/

These are the inserts I used in my block.

Easily done with a mag-drill.
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Kind of like Keenserts without the drive pins. I am not a big fan of Heli-coils. Any time I make aluminum fixtures that have tapped holes that are go to be used alot, I use Keenserts, or make thread inserts out of 17-4 and rockset them in. Timing the threads so that the id thread splits the od thread is really easy on the cnc lathe. The encoder will use the same rotational start point. Set z zero for the threading tools with the center of the 60 degree tip at the face of the part. Then thread the od with the start point at z.2, set the id tool start point at z.2 + 1/2 of the pitch. I agree with using an undersized drill and then reaming to size. That is the best way.
Thread roll on the studs. Cut the threads and they will break at the pull out point.
 
To line up on the holes to drill them out bigger, just cut off the head of one old head bolt, screw it in the block and chuck up on the bolt with a mag-drill, then activat the magnet on the mag drill and wa-la you are lined up on the hole and ready to drill! Then before ya move the mag-drill, chuck up the tap and tap it wile you are still lined up with the hole you just drilled.
 
Dockboy said:
http://www.timesert.com/

These are the inserts I used in my block.

Easily done with a mag-drill.
Click to expand...



Thats the tool I was thinking of, that should be like having a mini drill press mounted to the block. I think going to a machine shop would be the best way but I am pretty decent at fab work and it would be cheaper to just buy head studs in the end.
 
Not a crazy idea at all. However, making one set alone probably wouldn't save you any money.

PM Sent.
 
I have heard of guys using cap head bolts, just taping the block to 14mm so you have a bigger bolt.
 
Yea the cap head bolt I think is 160,000 versus a grade 8 bolt that is 150,000.
 
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