Need 13mm p-pump help!

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foreman9984

Diesel Junkie
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
420
I built this engine and recently got it fired up, the problem is I'm not sure how to time my pump. I have the blue-point/snap-on timing set and have done it on a few 12mm stock pumps but my 13mm pump is different. I timed it with the timing pin in the camshaft and the timing pin in the pump thinking this was a good spot to start. The engine will start after a long time of cranking and having it plugged in. I'm affraid if I don't change it soon it will harm the engine. When it is cranking it blows alot of white smoke and raw fuel out the EGT probe port in the manifold. It's a bosch pump tag says : 927 Bosch PE56P120A120RS7275 402 736 841 4360213177 and stamped between barrels 3 and 4 it has 884 and 5285 stamped in it. When I tried to install the dial indicator it would not fit through the hole in the barrell, the plug had a smaller center port than 12mm pumps. A little info on the engine, 1996 12v, EEP big billet cam, 60 lb springs, titanium retainers and keepers, relieved pistons, fire rings, 5x18 single feed injectors, Air dog DF-165, ATS T4 manifold and a S400 7? mm turbo, hoping to run 18 to 22 degrees timing. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
do you know where the internal pump time is pinned if not try to find out
 
Most all 13mm pumps are pin timed at 0. Get a balancer tape is the easiest way to time it off the motor
 
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Who's pump is it? Mine was pinned at 28 degrees, so don't assume its at zero. It seems odd that the dial base wouldn't fit in the barrel, as the one I have fits in all of my 12mm pumps as well as my 13mm. Do you know anyone with a timing light? Make it easier to find where you're at and then you can pin the pump and rotate the engine backwards to advance it, or forwards to retard it.
 
Yeah I have no idea where it is pinned internally, it came on a truck I traded for and was too big for the street. It came from a shop in IN that is no longer in business, not cool! When I remove the delivery valve holder and the delivery valve there is a fitting or plug in the bottom of the housing that the indicator push rod will not fit through. I'm not sure if the fitting removes or is integral to the pump.
 
Pics? Are you removing the pressure valve base? The part the delivery valve slides into?
 
Tate said:
Who's pump is it? Mine was pinned at 28 degrees, so don't assume its at zero. It seems odd that the dial base wouldn't fit in the barrel, as the one I have fits in all of my 12mm pumps as well as my 13mm. Do you know anyone with a timing light? Make it easier to find where you're at and then you can pin the pump and rotate the engine backwards to advance it, or forwards to retard it.
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The snap on timing set will not work on a 13mm pump im a snap on dealer and to my knowledge there is no base for the big holders. All the 13mm pumps i have seen have the big holders. You can have them pinned were every you want them but most good pump shops will pin these big pumps at zero. Drip timing is your only real option if you cant find out were its pinned at.
 
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DISTURBED said:
The snap on timing set will not work on a 13mm pump im a snap on dealer and to my knowledge there is no base for the big holders. All the 13mm pumps i have seen have the big holders. You can have them pinned were every you want them but most good pump shops will pin these big pumps at zero.
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Not trying to argue or anything, but CDS sets them where the owner wants them...but I have never dealt with anyone else.

Since the shop in question is kaput, I would kind thing it is not a good shop??


Know anyone in the area with a Diesel timing light?
Chris
 
Nun taken, Ive always been asked were i want them set but they always recommend 0 since you can set it off the engine other wise the pin is useless if you go above or below what its pinned at
 
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I would agree with you...not sure why more people don't realize how easy that is:D
Chris
 
Right the timing process is easy, my snap on set screws in to the holder bore fine but the needle is too large in diameter to fit through the hole below the delivery valve itself. Maybe this piece is supposed to come out somehow? It almost looked like it screwed in, but I have no idea what kind of tool would be used to screw it out. Thanks for the help guys!
 
Sorry guys, I was being dumb! For some reason the inside of this pump didnt look like the others to me, but I was wrong. I checked it last night and it is pinned at 10.050 mm at #1 TDC. I moved it to 7.0 mm of lift at #1 TDC. It started and ran better, still alot of white smoke, but I dont have an air heater and didnt plug it in first either. What are you guys seeing for lift at about 20* timing on your 13mm Pumps. I understand if no one wants to say, but I have no info on this pump. I know it ran very well on my other truck tho. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!!
 
I'll try to find out, I have the reciept at home. So what kind of lift you guys seeing at 20*?
 
There is no direct answer for how much lift equals how much timing. Every pump shop that builds them uses different cams in the pumps. So you need to take it to a pump shop and have them check it or have it pinned timed at 0. Lift timing a 13mm pump isnt really a good way to time them because of the quick rate cams in them, unless you have a pump that uses a stock cam and just has 13mm B&P in it
 
talking to lee a while back and we looked at the recieptfor the pump, it does have a quick rate cam, and i believe the pump came from a shop somewhere in indiana. lee call dennis frey up at Faid Valley Performance. hes a good guy to have check the pump out if you want.

tony
 
foreman9984 said:
I'll try to find out, I have the reciept at home. So what kind of lift you guys seeing at 20*?
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Like Disturbed said, each pump will be different based on cam and plungers, but that being said, my CDS pump is 26 degrees at 8.24mm lift. 40 degrees is 10.16 if I remember the picture right. Best thing is to track someone down with a light, then you know where you are sitting. Drive to Alberta, I'll check it for you.
 
HAHA alberta is a little far, i'll try to find one around here. It does have a quick rate cam. When it was at 10.050 mm lift it ran better with less white smoke, but started VERY hard, now at 7.0 mm lift it starts easier but smokes all the time and pops really bad when off idle, dosn't run well over 1000 rpm. Thanks for the help guys, I'll do some more checking.
 
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