No top end power....

Laramie4x4

Laramie4x4

I'm still FASTER
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
1,003
Hopefully Mr.Wagner reads this.. I'm running tnt/r and I guess its not the 4000rpm file because that doesnt show up when I load options.. but my truck is running really solid during my runs until shortly after the 1/8 mile feels like there is no top end power.. I know alot of people stack it with a TST..but why.. what makes it such a good stack.. why can't there be just one programmer for everything provide what I need?? I hear people say they have customs tune from Mr.Wagner how legit their storied are I have no idea..but if so..how might i get one.. I need a better tune for my application... I'm sure smarty works great at sea level but at 6400 ft above I think its different.. thansk for the help and info ahead of time..
 
I hear a lot about the no top end power, but for me coming from an edge juice, Smarty feels a tad less slower on launch and way more power up top compared to the edge. I have tried stacking the Edge with the Smarty and it is good for me Just as long as it is on the lower levels. It might feel different because I spray water meth, but thats just my .02
 
I experienced the exact same problem. Went to the track this past weekend with a friend that has a mega like mine and very close to the same build. Same fuel, same twins only I have a 66 on top to his 64. He also has larger injectors.

We loaded the smarty on the exact same settings and hit the track. We basically ran side by side and ran 12's. Both our trucks should easily be in the 11's.

Next time out... same Smarty settings only he turned on the TST to a low setting. I can't run it on my truck. We were side by side again till half track when he took off and left me 2 trucks lengths behind. He ran a 12.3 to my original 12.7. I have no top end at all.

I do believe more of my trucks problem is lack of fuel though. The Smarty fuels great on the bottom but, unless you have a ton of fuel to move, it lacks the help on top. Sure wish TST fixed the issue of the 07's..... they're a great stack.

The 4K tune wouldn't make a difference since you'd never see 4K anyway.
 
What 1/8 and 1/4 mph are you guys running? What rpm is your transmission set to shift at? On my truck without the high rpm turned on, it starts to defuel really heavy about 3300rpm. With the high rpm option turned on (tnt/r), it pulls strong to 3600rpm at least. Not as much hp as about 3200, but still pulling strong. Racing cars in the NHRA Pro ET class, I usually out mph, cars running the same E.T. In other words it pulls good on the top end. Kinda pisses the car guys off... :lolly:

If it's a defueling problem you should see both boost and egt's start to drop. Becareful though, because if the ECM starts pulling fuel from the tail end of the injection cycle (shorter duration, same advance), EGT's and boost will be down, but cylinder temps can still be high. The higher the rpm gets the worse the ratio will get.

Paul
 
The ecu physically can not keep the injectors open long enough over 3600. No amount of programming or stacking is going to fix that
 
paulb said:
Know the math?
Click to expand...

No I do not. I know little about the technical details as to why, that's beyond my understanding, I never got into electrical (can't even remember to ground my ecu right?)

From various sources, one of them bring one step away from Marco (not bob) claim the stock capacitors cannot recharge quickly enough around 3600 rpm, the injectors shut from the pressure in the rail way early while under load with the lack of electrical power.

Free reviving to 4000 is possible, just with load where more duration is needed, the ecu falls flat

Every graph of an over fueled truck on #9 looks similar over 3200.

I've read posts where marco has stated that he lengthen the duration beyond anything usable at high rpm and the power remained un changed.

I'm repeating what I've learned by asking around so, grain of salt is prefered, but the explanation fits the symptoms (lack of boost,egt, burnt motors from timing at 4000rpm while running clean and lean)
 
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JasonCzerak said:
Any one agree? Is this right? Wrong?
Click to expand...

I am not going to disagree, because in some cases you could be correct. You are looking for an absolute where none exists. You quoted 3600 rpm, that could happen. It also might not happen until much later, and under just the right conditions earlier.

I personally like to make as much power using injector sizing as possible, and then use duration to go the rest of the way. Long duration and high rpm is just asking for problems. Of course large injectors and to much advance is also asking for problems. The melted pistons do look different depending on which of the above problems exists.

This debate could go on forever, that's why I asked about the math. I wasn't disageeing with you, just was hoping you had the information to back it up.

Paul
 
paulb said:
I am not going to disagree, because in some cases you could be correct. You are looking for an absolute where none exists. You quoted 3600 rpm, that could happen. It also might not happen until much later, and under just the right conditions earlier.

I personally like to make as much power using injector sizing as possible, and then use duration to go the rest of the way. Long duration and high rpm is just asking for problems. Of course large injectors and to much advance is also asking for problems. The melted pistons do look different depending on which of the above problems exists.

This debate could go on forever, that's why I asked about the math. I wasn't disageeing with you, just was hoping you had the information to back it up.

Paul
Click to expand...

3600 (and some change) is where my power really takes a drop, I know I had the fuel, my boost and egt drop. I'm not the only one to spit out that 3600 number. On the road, 3600 is all it will do in 6th. ;-) not much more you can add or take away from that.

Picasa Web Albums - Jason - Ram 2500 - Fl...

Yeah, I'd like to see real numbers too. I know that not every capacitor is the exact same or age the same. The condition of the 2 batteries could change the capacitors ability to recharge more or less. condition of the wires, humidity, circuitry, I'm sure some year ECU's are more or less capable and the limit could vary so many rpm's. you know the same part number for that cap in 03, isn't in an 07 ecu.

It's funny I type that about the battery condition. Unfortunately it could just be me, but my truck does feel smoother after I got rid of the old orignal batteries this past weekend. The stereo definitely can not dim the headlights or gauges anymore, that's a straight up fact. Better more consistent voltage to the ECU could very well be resulting in the smoothness.

But ya know paul, no one with the knowledge will never really answer any question in this thread, even vaguely. :( that's sad.
 
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