question about VP timing and boxes

D

dennhop

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Nov 10, 2008
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Does anyone know how much timing the Edge Comp actually adds to the VP? I'm beginning to believe that I'm having timing issues now, with the Edge Comp on. I've heard that the 24v can have a timing shudder, and I think that's what I've got right now. I was running a set of RV's and my Edge Comp, then upgraded to Scheid 150s, it started to shudder pretty bad, and then finally got my new turbo, a 64/71/14 on. That seemed to lighten up the shudder, but it's still not gone.
I've been looking into it, and I'm beginning to believe that that may be my issue. I'd like to swap out my Edge Comp for a box that does fueling only, to see if that would clear up my problem. I was looking into the TST Powermax 3, with just the remote, but I was told by someone that the PM3 actually does timing too? Is that true, or is he off base?
I'm also thinking about swapping my wiretap for a BD stealth plate, but not sure if I want to drop the money on a plate, to find out that it wasn't my wiretap...

I've also heard that running bigger lines and connector tubes can mechanically retard the timing on the VP, so if I did that and left the Comp on, could that stop the timing shudder?
 
I used to have the TST PM3 with the Comp upgarde and loved it. And no, its a fueling only box with no added timing.
 
You are the second person in a week to ask about the shudder.Mine does it more when it is cold outside.I am looking for info also.
 
You can run the comp as a fuel only box, just have to get a boost fooler.
Yea I'm having timing shudder and it started when I went to 200ddps
 
How do you run the comp as a fuel only box? Even when ran in EZ mode it's adding timing.
 
Yes in ez mode it is supposed to add timing.
To run it as fuel only just use the wire tap and not the map sensor conections
 
Describe this mysterious timing shudder.....
 
Only at light throttle, or do you het it when you drop the hammer at say 70mph with everything on kill?
 
The op doesn't say.Mine is hammer down edge 5x5, smarty 6 with everything else on default.
 
last i knew edge adds 8*

no edge has ever given me a timing issues, and ive owned 4, with stock, 150, and 250 injectors.

check your IAT sensor.
 
duallyspeed said:
The op doesn't say.Mine is hammer down edge 5x5, smarty 6 with everything else on default.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was at work today, so didn't get a chance to check back on this...

it does happen to me under heavy throttle, is when it starts bucking on me, with the Comp on, in all settings, 1x1-5x5, and every setting in between...thinking about going to a fuel only box, to see if it goes away, thinking that eliminating timing would fix the problem.
 
sounds like maybe you got a bad set of injectors or something. if the timing is the issue its just increasing the problem, not causing it.
 
I know what causes the hammer down issue... On certain boxes that connect to the CAN if you romp on it at low boost with a fair amount of RPM (like at 70 or so) on a heavily fueled truck that has a larger charger(spools slower than stock) and the ECM sees all of that fuel being asked for and freaks out. that is why you have to roll into the throttle and pin it after you see a few pounds so the ECM doesnt freak out.

As far as a shudder under "light" throttle, you would have to define light as a percentage for me.
 
Kick Start said:
Yes in ez mode it is supposed to add timing.
To run it as fuel only just use the wire tap and not the map sensor conections
Click to expand...

Thought the edge was boost referenced. How can it fuel at all if it sees no boost from the MAP?
 
It fuels based on the VP44 fueling rate that the wiretap sees....
 
Not entirely. It can be ran with the MAP sensor itself unplugged and the rest of the MAP sensor harness hooked up and be just fine. But it's still adding timing. The MAP sensor doesn't dictate whether or not the comp adds timing. It probably changes the scale on how it adds it but it doesn't tell it to add timing. The brains of the comp add timing. The comp does timing and fueling and there's no way around that.

The TST is based pretty much completely on boost referencing.
 
BgBlDodge said:
Not entirely. It can be ran with the MAP sensor itself unplugged and the rest of the MAP sensor harness hooked up and be just fine. But it's still adding timing. The MAP sensor doesn't dictate whether or not the comp adds timing. It probably changes the scale on how it adds it but it doesn't tell it to add timing. The brains of the comp add timing. The comp does timing and fueling and there's no way around that.
Click to expand...

I agree. I do not see how disconnecting the MAP connection will prevent any of the Edge products from adding timing.
 
Rollin Coal said:
if you disconnect the map sensor it fuels like it would at max boost
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be the same as doing the smoke switch? It's not really doing anything but throwing fuel at the injectors?

I've been talking to a bunch of guys, Fleece, Haisley, TDI Indianapolis, TST, and what I'm starting to see is that
1. I'm not the only one with this issue, so that makes me feel better,

2-whatever It seems to me that the main issue would be boxes that do timing and fueling, so in theory, I'm wondering if just a fueling box would take care of my issue?
I'm thinking about talking to one of my buddies, and disconnecting my Edge Comp completely from the engine, and running his Smarty on lvl 8, fuel only, to see if the shudder goes away. I understand that the bigger injectors alone will mechanically increase the timing of the VP, so if I can eliminate the timing of the box, it might solve the shudder. Also, if that clears up the issue, then I'll run the Smarty on one of the odd number settings, to see if the shudder returns with timing added, just to verify that my Comp is bad, before I send it to Edge, and pay them 100 bucks to tell me it's good.
Once I've done that, I might look into selling my Comp, and replacing it with a fueling only box, like the TST or the TS MVP. Does anyone else know a good fueling only box? Other than the Smarty, those are the only two fueling only boxes that I know of. The TS seems like a good deal, but does anyone have any experience with it? Just wondering, since the price on the TS is about half of any of the other boxes out there that do the same thing.
 
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