Too Much ZDDP?

J

JDGnut

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Zach.. or others.. can yo uget too much ZDDP in the oil.. If you used a Brad Penn, Cen or even the Royal Purple with higher ZDDP and ran the ZDDP additive could you have an issue.. (Yea.. why would you ever run both.. but just asking.)

What about for break in.. we usually use a Break in Oil..
 
IIRC his last stand was that more was better than less, unless you were to take it to an extreme.
 
I always shoot for 1500 to 2100ppm zinc and phosphorous. On some of the testing we have done zinc and phosphorous levels rise about 300-450PPM with a bottle of our new zinc additive.

On cams with moderate nose angles, good ole rotella or dello and 1 bottle will get you there. On cams with higher lift and more aggressive competition cams with sharp nose angles, we suggest 2 bottles every oil change. If you wipe a lobe on one of those you are on your own. They are VERY aggressive and tip toe on the line of what is possibe. All that to say, they work well :) and will last a long time if setup correctly with installed height, spring pressure, lubrication, and clean oil with no excessive soot.

JDGnut, not to be negative but I have installed hundreds of cams and built hundreds of engines without a cam failure using rotella, a good filter and a bottle of zinc in race applications with a lot of spring pressure. The common denominator I have seen with people that have had issues with their cams, typically with journals biting into the block, are that they run weird oil combos. There might be other issues like insufficient pre-lube, dirt in the block etc, but every one I have seen issues with was, LE, Brad penn, Royal purple etc. with redline, lucas, stp, comp cams or other additives. I'm sure they are good oils and I cannot blame failures on them, there are probably other reasons that I don't hear about on the phone. I just know that what I use works well. It ain't broke so I don't try to reinvent the wheel.

I always break in my engines with Rotella 15-40 and add our zinc additive with hot engines. After a couple thousand miles of use, I switch them to Synthetic if they want that.

At a risk of sounding like a used car salesman, I really recommend our zinc additive. It just works. It has a LOT more zinc and phosphorous than a lot of the other additives. It is higher per ounce but when you look at the PPM it adds, it is actually much cheaper than others for what you get. Some companies justify the higher price by giving you a lot of base oil but giving you less of the active ingredients. I shopped around for a long time before we made the switch.

Zach
 
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"There might be other issues like insufficient pre-lube, dirt in the block etc, but every one I have seen issues with was, LE, Brad penn, Royal purple etc. with redline, lucas, stp, comp cams or other additives. I'm sure they are good oils and I cannot blame failures on them, there are probably other reasons that I don't hear about on the phone. I just know that what I use works well. It ain't broke so I don't try to reinvent the wheel."

Thanks.. The concern is also with engine that will never see even 100's of miles.. down the track, and that's about it..

We will probably just stick to what has been working... Need to catch up with you and get some additive, one of these days..

Most of the tractor pullers really like their Brad Penn, and Cen-peco, but some of them are running rollers..
Thanks,
Bryan
 
Fair enough. The main problem I think is that a lot of the people have these magic mixes of two or three different products but have no clue what they do or how they mix. I know a lot of people run brad penn and other oils that work. I am a firm believer of use what is working for you, that is why I suggest what I do. But like I said what I do is not the only way to skin the rabbit or is it the best for competition engines.
 
To much ZDDP can be harmfully. Just like anything if a little bit is good, it doesn't mean a lot is better. The levels that Zach is recommending, I feel, are safe. ZDDP will shift the ph scale of the oil to the point that you can see gaskets start to leak, RTV will start to break down, and even some metals will start showing up in an oil analysis.

As Zack said if you start with an oil that is high in additivies that are already shifting the ph in the direction that ZDDP does, then you can add less ZDDP. If you are already using an oil that is leaching the copper out of the oil cooler, you may want to becareful on adding anything else to the oil.

I personally like to use an oil (such as Zack is recommending), and then add ZDDP, and maybe some moly. If you are using Delo 400, no need to add moly because it already has plenty in it. Some synthetics already have such a high TBN number, because they are designed for extended run, that adding something to them, can cause problems. Zinc however is not one that they can add, and is one of the things cams need.

Just my $.02, worth.

Paul
 
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