Trans Problems Torque Shift

H

hardhatz

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Nov 3, 2008
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19
Here's my sad tale..
2007 F-250, 6.0 diesel & torque shift, all stock
11,000 miles.

I bought it used, after it went swimming.
I have had a few wiring issues caused by the salt water. Of course, this voided the warranty.

Now, the trans is acting up. At first, it would occasionally have a hard shift, or maybe a neutral between 2nd & 3rd.

Later, the tow-haul light would blink, and it would refuse to shift above 3rd. Turning the engine off & re-starting would cure it for a while. Eventually, it would not go above 3rd. 3rd gear cannot be had with shift lever in "3". "3" & "2" both give 2nd gear. 3rd can be had only in "D".

The codes it threw were P 0741 & P 0756
741 is "solenoid B"
756 is TC lockup solenoid.

I have replaced the trans harness, the ECU to trans harness, and the in-cab harness.
When opened the trans, there was minor evidence of moisture in the pan & inline filters, but the fluid was not overly cloudy. When the trans harness did not fix the problem, I ordered all 7 solenoids.

Took it to Ford & told them the whole story. The Ford Mech was concerned about the moisture, because he states: "The clutch pack linings are attached with a water-based glue, and will fail in the presence of water". I do not know if that is true, however I DO notice that I still have a very crisp 2nd gear, which according to PSDPlayer indicates I still have an overdrive clutch (Thx Doug)

So, the service advisor called me BEFORE the tech even dropped the pan to install the new solenoids & told me Tech says it needs a new trans. He says the clutch lining is shot & its slipping that's why no 4th. (later when questioned how he arrived at this diagnosis, he became quite vague) He did not explain why the linings in gears 1 through 3 were not affected by the moisture. Those shifts are as crisp as ever.

I pointed out that the DTC states that the solenoid has not operated, and he says "that's why customers should not be allowed to have a code reader". I thought that somewhat arrogant, considering his own lack of answers.

He says the code blows because the shift occurred but the clutches didn't grab. Personally, I think he may be full of Dextron, because if it is a matter of missing lining, why was the problem intermittent for several days? Can turning the key off for 5 seconds actually let the clutches repair themselves?

After discussing the issue for a while, it was determined that he really had no idea at all where the problem lies, he just wants to play Pin-the-Tail-on-the-Donkey diagnosis with my truck. Of course, he wants to start with the most expensive thing first.

The latest is that it occasionally does not want to engage reverse, and once it gave me a neutral when I came to a stop. Had to shut off & restart to get back in gear.

Having replaced the wiring harnesses myself, I do not rule out an oversight in that job. I may have made a mistake, or bent a pin or something... It would sure be helpful if I knew where to start looking though.

Any bright ideas?
 
SS B is OD Clutch. You will intermittantly lose 2nd and OD. But If you get it occasionally its probably the solenoid. 3rd gear is intermediate. The Converter Clutch solenoid is probably stuck also. You wont get converter lockup with it stuck. So with OD gone it will shift 1 Try to get 2 but it won't It will either raise line pressure until it gets what it wants and slam the gear or it will skip it and go to intermediate. Then shift 3rd into 5th which is direct. And then it won't have overdrive.
 
If it ever did get water in it. Its done. Take it out. Do Not Pass Go. Do Not overhaul it. Replace the unit with a new one. Buy a new cooler. Don't attempt to replace it. And flush the **** out of the one in the radiator. Replace filter. Blow out the lines and call it a day.

New unit is like 2300 dollars and has 3 yr 75k warranty.


The fluid would look like a strawberry milkshake from Steak and Shake.
 
The fluid wasn't milky, except for a trace in the filters. It does 1-2-3 fine.

So, you think my problem is most likely inside the trans & not electronics?

I am not opposed to replacing it if I have to, but I was thinking of having it built up with one of those Hi-Perf kits that used extra disks & a shift kit. Is that a bad idea? If so, why is that?

I want it to shift better than stock, and I will add a tune later adding maybe 50-75 HP. I have read so many sad stories about TorqueShifts that I want to beef it up to last.
 
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BTW, Could you please give some details about the kit you have available?
 
Yeah water in there would tend to make a mess, along with bearings, sleeves and everything else. For the amount of time involved, I think I'd take PSD's advise and get another one. Hell, get a suncoast or whatever... With the amount of electronics in these things, it's not really surprising water would play more havoc over time than in a conventional older transmission. Salt water is even worse.

I mean this with all due respect, but you're a brave soul buying a flood victim truck. The amount of electronics everywhere in these things is amazing. Adding water will make for an amazing list of problems down the road. A sincere good luck to you.
 
The water based glue thing is true. Once it starts coming apart and gets into those solenoids they will stick. Once it gets all over. Its cheaper to replace the unit than overhaul it.
 
Thx guys..

There wasn't much water in there, so I'm really trying to isolate whether it is a bad trans, or just an outside electrical issue. I just don't want to spend for a trans & find out nothing has changed. Are there any other possibilities I can eliminate?

I could just buy a new one, but I'd prefer to spend a bit more & get an upgraded unit.

Thx for the Good Luck Kleetus.. I bought it right, and I've lucked out on the interior electronics, most of which have been replaced. Still, if I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't.
 
"Wasn't much water in there" Isn't something to be taken lightly.

In order to start ruling things out on your own you will need some test equipment. Since the Transmission Range sensors are Digital now they aren't as susceptable to water problems anymore. So if you can look at the PID in the computer to see if you are actually getting the gear you are commanding when you put it in that gear with the handle would be the first step. Since it only starts in Park and Neutral and goes into reverse, you know that P N R are working. Putting it in 1 2 and getting 1 2 tells you that low gear is working. If the engine breaking in manual 1 and 2 is working then you know you ae getting coast clutch engagement since it is applied in the manual gears.

Since you are getting 2, then you know OD clutch is working.

When you would not be able to get above 3rd gear, did you notice if the trans temp gauge on the dash was burried full cold? Even after driving for quite a while?

If so the truck is doing what it should because it thinks the transmission fluid is 40 degrees below 0. Or something really cold and is trying to warm the fluid up. This is usually associated with a trans oil temp sensor that is way out of range but not technically bad. The computer sees the input and just goes along with it. However, many a temp sender has been replaced, but the problem was actually in the internal transmission harness. Both are roughly 70 to 90 dollars. Don't look at the TOT sensor or you will be really pissed that a small piece of plastic can cost 90 dollars.

The intermittant nature of the shifting would have me replacing shift solenoid B and the converter clutch solenoid, but only after checking the trans temp issue.

If you replace those 2 solenoids, you would be wise to remove the entire solenoid body and have it professionally cleaned. The cleaning of the solenoids puts them into a machine that runs fluid through them and pulses the **** out of them. The testing block for the 5r110 solenoids is ~600 bucks and goes in a very expensive little machine the dealer won't have.

Then after you have gone through all of these steps, whatever that was comming apart and clogging them up will probably do it again. So, you can do it like shampoo and Rinse and Repeat as neccessary and keep paying over and over. OR YOU CAN TAKE IT OUT AND START FRESH AND AVOID A GIANT HASSLE THAT WILL KICK YOU IN THE NUTS EVERY DAY GOING FORWARD AND

REPLACE THE UNIT.

Water is cancer.

If the doctor said there was only a little bit of cancer in you, you would want him to remove it before it got the chance to leave you stranded on the side of the road over and over again.
 
Now that is what I call an intelligent answer! Very thoughtful...

I did replace the harness inside the trans and all 7 solenoids.
Temp is normal.
But, you've reminded me of something I forgot to mention:
It no longer starts in N or P. I had to create a shunt between the Ign switch & the fuse panel to get it to crank. This occurred more lately, during the middle of the problems. Hmmm.. :doh:

OK, I guess I need a trans. Next question: what about having a competent shop rebuild mine using your kit with the Alto Red Eagles & all that other trick stuff? Because, the more I read about these trannies, the sicker I feel. Seems that stock they are a pile of junk.
Even before the trouble started, it flared a bit going into 3rd. That can't be a good thing. So, I either want to build this one beefed up, or buy one beefed up.

Any suggestions where to look? I am in Southern California.

:thankyou2:
 
A pile of Junk, really? Depends on what you plan throwing at it, but I have an 05 with 142k. It got those miles from pulling three cars on a gooseneck, it's bone stock and (knock on wood) is great.
 
Whew... what a learning experience!

The following is believed to be true: I disavow any and all responsibility if I am mistaken.

So, a well-known trans specialist on the Sunny Coast of Florida offers a fancy rebuild kit that features Alto Red frictions. Other tranny shops-who buy & use Alto products-cannot obtain all the parts. They are told by Alto that Alto does not make those parts.

Careful reading of the fine print on the Florida company's website reveals the following:

Low & Reverse,
Forward Clutch, and
Overdrive...
feature Alto Red Eagle frictions.
(It seems these are leftovers from the C6 parts bin)

Intermediate, and
Direct Clutch..
merely state 5 & 6 frictions.
(seems they wish you to infer that Alto Red Eagle products are used exclusively throughout)

I now have my truck in a shop locally. I think they have been pretty diligent in their research, and they have a solid reputation here for performance work. They are going to use Reybestos Blue frictions, and have on-site equipment (& expertise) to machine for extra disks. One friction & one plate will be added to each clutch pack. A Trans-go shift kit will be added.

I'll report the outcome as soon as I get it back.
 
After talking with both Irvin and Chris at Raybestos, they don't offer a Blue Plate clutch for that transmission. I was told since it is difficult to work with they only do it in certain applications. There is a new Red Clay material they have developed for that application.

Here is a link to their applications.

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/pdf/catalogs/raybestos_catalog.pdf

Page 34. Is an OEM replacement kit only. The blue plate material is 10year old technology. The Torqshift was built with high energy material from the factory. All parts are readily obtainable if you know what you are looking for. There is a big blue book with 5R110 on the side of it that would tell you what you are looking for.
 
Oh dear...

Chalk up one more for me... I seem to have a knack for getting myself into insoluable situations :bang
 
What do you plan on doing with the truck? If you never intend to start drag racing it past the simple tuner upgrade, then the stock parts are fine.
 
Stock transmission with a converter and warranty is looking better and better for you.
 
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