2 stage/dual stage water to air for a daily driver

madmikeismad

madmikeismad

So mad
Does anyone know what their average air temps are with stock IC's?

I'm thinking about running a water to air setup with small twins, but I of course wouldn't be utilizing an ice box, and I would think that even with the heat exchanger the water would eventually heat up to whatever temperature the radiator is at, or close to it. So I'm curious if you could just use engine coolant. I don't run the trans heat exchanger anymore, so those coolant ports are just going to waste.

I know there's a big thread in the pulling section, but I didn't want to screw it up, being it's all about ice and short runs.
 
I know with the big motors (over the road truck motors, i.e. Cat, Cummins, Detroit). When an air to air charge air cooler was introduced they gained power.

Caterpillar made 2 serial number 3406Bs, the first with an air to water charge cooler running coolant through it and an other with an air to air charge cooler. The serial with the air to water was rated at 400 horse. While the motor with the air to air was rated at 425.

So theoretically you can only lower the intake temps to operating temperature with an air I water running coolant through it. Versus an air to air where theoretically you can run ambient air temps to the intake.
 
What about running its own coolant system? It's own heat exchanger, electric pump etc...

I guess for all that work I would just setup a nice water/meth kit and call it good:)
 
I used coolant as the cooling medium in my water to air daily driver setup. Mine was between stages and then used a/a after 2nd stage. the air temp entering the a/w were 300+ degrees and while the system worked the water returning to the engine was so hot I would overheat when towing. If you are planning to use it instead of your a/a and plan no interstage cooling then your air temps would be much hotter going through your a/w cooler. I went to a standalone cooling system and have had no furthur problems.

It should be noted I run electrical radiator fans and perhaps the stock fan would have been able to keep temps under control.
 
madmikeismad said:
Does anyone know what their average air temps are with stock IC's?

I'm thinking about running a water to air setup with small twins, but I of course wouldn't be utilizing an ice box, and I would think that even with the heat exchanger the water would eventually heat up to whatever temperature the radiator is at, or close to it. So I'm curious if you could just use engine coolant. I don't run the trans heat exchanger anymore, so those coolant ports are just going to waste.

I know there's a big thread in the pulling section, but I didn't want to screw it up, being it's all about ice and short runs.
Click to expand...

It depends on where you pull the coolant. If you pull the coolant from the exit of the radiator the coolant should be much cooler to ambient air temps and thus be able to cool the charge air closer to ambient air temps as well. Discharge back into the radiator return. Use a separate pump.

I'll be running a interstage A/W on my setup.
 
Todd W said:
I used coolant as the cooling medium in my water to air daily driver setup. Mine was between stages and then used a/a after 2nd stage. the air temp entering the a/w were 300+ degrees and while the system worked the water returning to the engine was so hot I would overheat when towing. If you are planning to use it instead of your a/a and plan no interstage cooling then your air temps would be much hotter going through your a/w cooler. I went to a standalone cooling system and have had no furthur problems.

It should be noted I run electrical radiator fans and perhaps the stock fan would have been able to keep temps under control.
Click to expand...

I think your issue was you were returning the water out of the A/W to the engine. Should have returned it to the radiator inlet and let it pass through the radiator core before returning to anything else.
 
There is a couple local to me guys that are running a/w on the street. Basically they're weekend pullers/daily driver 2.6 trucks. They mount an ice chest in the bed and have a dedicated radiator mounted right behind the bumper using an electric pump for circulation. Come time to pull drain a little water out of the ice chest, add ice and go pulling. Only downfall in my book is having to run antifreeze in it during the winter.
 
When you run an air to water intercooler, you want to run a separate cooling loop. Of course its gonna suck if you're trying to cool 300 degree air with 200 degree water. The best you can do is 200 degrees, but thats 100% efficiency, which is more than twice as hot as it would be with A2A.
 
Ghostman said:
I think your issue was you were returning the water out of the A/W to the engine. Should have returned it to the radiator inlet and let it pass through the radiator core before returning to anything else.
Click to expand...

Now that I think about it this is how my 855 is set up. The coolant goes through the inter cooler, then down to the oil cooler then back to the radiator. There is a second loop that goes from the radiator, to a water manifold where the water flows through the block then back to the radiator. Creating two separate loops.

How ever I don't believe that his water, even though coming directly out of the cool side of the radiator is at ambient temperature. Or even close. Yes you can hold you hand on the manifold but you don't want to hold it there very long. I still suggest air to air.

If my budget allows this year, I am going to gut the inter cooler on my 855 and plumb in air to air.

I would be interested to know how a completely different cooling system would work, with a completely separate radiator, coolant and pump flowing through an air to water inter cooler, like lorendiesel5.9 is talking.
 
I run a a/w in between the stages with a frozenboost heat exchanger in front with a fan and electric pump, then a/a after the second stage.. works good.. I can tell you if I forget to turn the pump on and in a good pull it will boil the water in the w/a..
 
I have no way to check my iat temps but I have a separate loop just for my air to water. Coolant reservoir, heat exchanger and electric pump. My crusing egts are similar to what they would be if it was air to air (500-600) and under full load my egts are never over 1600*. Also my intake tract is half of what it would be if I was to run an air to air.

Separate loop is the way to go if your going to dd it.
 
Last edited:
JFettig said:
When you run an air to water intercooler, you want to run a separate cooling loop. Of course its gonna suck if you're trying to cool 300 degree air with 200 degree water. The best you can do is 200 degrees, but thats 100% efficiency, which is more than twice as hot as it would be with A2A.
Click to expand...

RockinRam96 said:
Now that I think about it this is how my 855 is set up. The coolant goes through the inter cooler, then down to the oil cooler then back to the radiator. There is a second loop that goes from the radiator, to a water manifold where the water flows through the block then back to the radiator. Creating two separate loops.

How ever I don't believe that his water, even though coming directly out of the cool side of the radiator is at ambient temperature. Or even close. Yes you can hold you hand on the manifold but you don't want to hold it there very long. I still suggest air to air.

If my budget allows this year, I am going to gut the inter cooler on my 855 and plumb in air to air.

I would be interested to know how a completely different cooling system would work, with a completely separate radiator, coolant and pump flowing through an air to water inter cooler, like lorendiesel5.9 is talking.
Click to expand...


Do you think 200*F water exiting the radiator would do any good trying to cool a engine to 195*? The EXIT temp of the coolant from the radiator is much closer to ambient than you would think. You want to plumb it from the radiator exit to the A/W, then directly back to radiator intake. A single loop for the A/W. A/W are much more efficient than a A/A. Water can draw the heat out of the intake charge much more efficiently and at a greater rate than air can. That's why we pump water through the engine and not air. I have measured coolant temps at the radiator discharge on a hot 100*F day in south texas after I had been driving the truck for an hour and the temps were between 125-130* with them rising while I was idling in park. I can only assume while driving down the road with additional cooling that they were lower. I think you would be surprised how little the thermostat is actually fully open. Atleast on a good clean coolant system. Now if your towing max load, up a grade, with turbo's wound out, sure things are gonna heat up.

Just hold tight and I'll have test data soon and I'll publish it. No sense in arguing of data that no one here is going to have, all speculation. Although I have measured coolant temps myself. I will have a gauge reading temp across the A/W core, that will let me know how well the concept is working.
 
asapuhaq.jpg
u4equre4.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok, so IAT temps weren't has hot as I was thinking. I think I'll stick with a2a. Maybe figure something else out down the road.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top