True Diesel
New member
On the bottom of that document the foot notes is good info, and solidifies what I have been saying!
California Emissions
- Thread starter True Diesel
- Start date
On the bottom of that document the foot notes is good info, and solidifies what I have been saying!
dmigz57
New member
it was some stupid kid at skool that told me. i knew he was full of chit i just wantd to make sure on here
dmigz57
New member
also my buddy got a notice for smog on his 98 12v. hes tryin to just find somebody that will take some cash to get it done. ill let u know how that works out for him. also i heard that even if u have a tune and its cleared that it will leave a footprint and it will fail. true?
True Diesel
New member
Some tunes might leave a foot print. depends on the age and software used. I always recommend flash tuning. The Banks Guy should have something to say on that.
True Diesel
New member
:hehe:
jbarker@bosch
You're gonna do what?!
Not true. The only thing the smog tech will look for is any trouble codes in the ECM. They have no way to tell if there was an aftermarket tune in it and then removed or even if it's still there.
7inchstack
diesel dork
got my CR smoged 2 weeks ago...
jbarker@bosch
You're gonna do what?!
Here's a letter (I posted elsewhere on this forum as well) that was sent to the state from Gale Banks:
March 09, 2010
The Honorable Arnold Schwarzenegger
300 S. Spring Street
Suite 16701
Los Angeles, CA 90013
Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,
The State of California is asking that our products pass a test to be legal for sale. My products are ready for the test but; nobody with the State can tell me what the test is.
My name is Gale Banks; I own the automotive design and manufacturing company Gale Banks Engineering, which has been in business 51 years and employs 145 people. Gale Banks Engineering’s products work in a variety of consumer, military, marine and commercial applications to improve diesel engine fuel economy, power, durability and safety. In today’s parlance, we’ve been doing “clean diesel” long before that catch-phrase was ever uttered.
I like to think Gale Banks Engineering is a good example of the kind of company people talk about when they speak of businesses that helped make California the premier state for innovation, opportunity and economic success.
Now, CARB (California Air Resources Board), thru BAR (the Bureau of Automotive Repair) ‘Diesel Smog Check Program’ seeks to punish our customers, and the customers of other businesses like us, for buying our products.
As of January 1st of this year and due to AB 1488, the new “Diesel Smog Check” program has begun. To pass the diesel smog inspection mandated by AB 1488, a customer’s vehicle equipped with certain Banks products, or the products of others, must have a CARB issued EO (executive order) sticker. Unfortunately, we can’t supply the CARB EO sticker, that permission comes when our products pass the CARB EO test.
But, there is currently no applicable and comprehensive test for the aftermarket. CARB decided to change the test our products must pass, eight years ago. The problem is, they have not developed a new EO test for aftermarket to replace the former one. As a result, it has been impossible for products sold in the “time gap,” between then and now, to be tested and receive an EO. And, know this, we first suggested to CARB a new test that could be done by the aftermarket in 2002. We ran that test on a Dodge Cummins and submitted the results. CARB wanted something different so starting in 2002 Banks, and then SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Marketing Association) starting around 2005, have been trying to move them to finalize the new test.
We cannot pass a test that does not exist, so there is no way we can prove that these “gap products” comply with emissions regulations. And, there is consequently no way that CARB can deem them illegal. The “no test problem” cuts both ways. In 2002 they put us in a situation with two choices. Go out of business or wait for CARB to come up with a test. Which would you choose? We decided to continue to work with CARB and stay in business.
My company has a good reputation with CARB. We continue to manufacture products which are designed to comply with CARB emissions standards. We now have over 80 EO’s covering our products. Our customers continue to buy them in good faith. Gale Banks Engineering is actively working directly with CARB, and we hope to have a clear path forward soon, but we anticipate that it may take up to a year to complete the EO process for all the products affected by this situation. We currently have 12 EO product test applications at CARB, the oldest being submitted 15 months ago.
Which brings me to you: I am asking your assistance in getting forbearance for my customers from BAR’s “diesel smog check”, while CARB decides what its product test will be, such that our products can comply. My customers should not be harmed due to the State’s lack of completion of their work. We have been lead to believe that a decision on the diesel EO test is just around the corner, and we have continued selling our products in good faith.
Gale Banks Engineering has provided BAR with a list of products for which CARB EO applications are in process. We ask that provision be made for these items to PASS this portion of the inspection during this interim period, while we work with CARB to secure the necessary EO’s.
This will not impact any of the remaining portions of the “diesel smog check” test. Vehicles that are equipped with Banks products would still be expected to pass all other components of the inspection, including OBD checks and the BAR snap (smoke) test.
For years, we, at Banks and SEMA have worked with CARB to help define the new test in good faith. But, at the end of the day, it is CARB’s responsibility as the regulator, not the industry’s as the regulated, to produce this test.
Governor Schwarzenegger, the case I can make for our industry is strong. Your attention and assistance in solving this unfair situation would be greatly appreciated.
Respectfully,
Gale Banks
President
Gale Banks Engineering
March 09, 2010
The Honorable Arnold Schwarzenegger
300 S. Spring Street
Suite 16701
Los Angeles, CA 90013
Dear Governor Schwarzenegger,
The State of California is asking that our products pass a test to be legal for sale. My products are ready for the test but; nobody with the State can tell me what the test is.
My name is Gale Banks; I own the automotive design and manufacturing company Gale Banks Engineering, which has been in business 51 years and employs 145 people. Gale Banks Engineering’s products work in a variety of consumer, military, marine and commercial applications to improve diesel engine fuel economy, power, durability and safety. In today’s parlance, we’ve been doing “clean diesel” long before that catch-phrase was ever uttered.
I like to think Gale Banks Engineering is a good example of the kind of company people talk about when they speak of businesses that helped make California the premier state for innovation, opportunity and economic success.
Now, CARB (California Air Resources Board), thru BAR (the Bureau of Automotive Repair) ‘Diesel Smog Check Program’ seeks to punish our customers, and the customers of other businesses like us, for buying our products.
As of January 1st of this year and due to AB 1488, the new “Diesel Smog Check” program has begun. To pass the diesel smog inspection mandated by AB 1488, a customer’s vehicle equipped with certain Banks products, or the products of others, must have a CARB issued EO (executive order) sticker. Unfortunately, we can’t supply the CARB EO sticker, that permission comes when our products pass the CARB EO test.
But, there is currently no applicable and comprehensive test for the aftermarket. CARB decided to change the test our products must pass, eight years ago. The problem is, they have not developed a new EO test for aftermarket to replace the former one. As a result, it has been impossible for products sold in the “time gap,” between then and now, to be tested and receive an EO. And, know this, we first suggested to CARB a new test that could be done by the aftermarket in 2002. We ran that test on a Dodge Cummins and submitted the results. CARB wanted something different so starting in 2002 Banks, and then SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Marketing Association) starting around 2005, have been trying to move them to finalize the new test.
We cannot pass a test that does not exist, so there is no way we can prove that these “gap products” comply with emissions regulations. And, there is consequently no way that CARB can deem them illegal. The “no test problem” cuts both ways. In 2002 they put us in a situation with two choices. Go out of business or wait for CARB to come up with a test. Which would you choose? We decided to continue to work with CARB and stay in business.
My company has a good reputation with CARB. We continue to manufacture products which are designed to comply with CARB emissions standards. We now have over 80 EO’s covering our products. Our customers continue to buy them in good faith. Gale Banks Engineering is actively working directly with CARB, and we hope to have a clear path forward soon, but we anticipate that it may take up to a year to complete the EO process for all the products affected by this situation. We currently have 12 EO product test applications at CARB, the oldest being submitted 15 months ago.
Which brings me to you: I am asking your assistance in getting forbearance for my customers from BAR’s “diesel smog check”, while CARB decides what its product test will be, such that our products can comply. My customers should not be harmed due to the State’s lack of completion of their work. We have been lead to believe that a decision on the diesel EO test is just around the corner, and we have continued selling our products in good faith.
Gale Banks Engineering has provided BAR with a list of products for which CARB EO applications are in process. We ask that provision be made for these items to PASS this portion of the inspection during this interim period, while we work with CARB to secure the necessary EO’s.
This will not impact any of the remaining portions of the “diesel smog check” test. Vehicles that are equipped with Banks products would still be expected to pass all other components of the inspection, including OBD checks and the BAR snap (smoke) test.
For years, we, at Banks and SEMA have worked with CARB to help define the new test in good faith. But, at the end of the day, it is CARB’s responsibility as the regulator, not the industry’s as the regulated, to produce this test.
Governor Schwarzenegger, the case I can make for our industry is strong. Your attention and assistance in solving this unfair situation would be greatly appreciated.
Respectfully,
Gale Banks
President
Gale Banks Engineering
dmigz57
New member
and how did that go...
True Diesel
New member
Problems
Apparently The ARB is having problems!When I find the info I will post it. For some reason the gentleman with all of the numbers that has caused this change in the diesel industry. Did not Have a Phd or any other way of being qualified to give proper information. ARB used his info to make this happen. And for some reason they are not changing? when I find the link I will post it!
Some thing for every one to holler at the government about.
Wait till I talk about the UREA SNAFU!:bang
Apparently The ARB is having problems!When I find the info I will post it. For some reason the gentleman with all of the numbers that has caused this change in the diesel industry. Did not Have a Phd or any other way of being qualified to give proper information. ARB used his info to make this happen. And for some reason they are not changing? when I find the link I will post it!
Some thing for every one to holler at the government about.
Wait till I talk about the UREA SNAFU!:bang
fords rock
on the road again
what about it they have done it for years in Germany and it is the process of cleaning the exhaust with fertilizer
big bad diesel
white lightnin
ya i was just at a show and that stuff is pricy and its all a joke what they need to do is nothing this is how i look at it
when you do an activity in the dust and you blow your nose you get dirt that your body has filtered out (this an example before the DPF and the size of the particulate)
when you do an activity in the dust and you blow your nose and you get nothing this is because the particulars are so small now they have passed your defences and are deep in the body therefore causing health problems
its not that there are less particles produced it is a smaller number that comes out of the tale pipe i have the remains of a DPF cleaned out after 8 hours of use i will take a pic and post it up
oh well i had an opacity test done for fun at the local college and 96% black just doing me part ha ha ha
when you do an activity in the dust and you blow your nose you get dirt that your body has filtered out (this an example before the DPF and the size of the particulate)
when you do an activity in the dust and you blow your nose and you get nothing this is because the particulars are so small now they have passed your defences and are deep in the body therefore causing health problems
its not that there are less particles produced it is a smaller number that comes out of the tale pipe i have the remains of a DPF cleaned out after 8 hours of use i will take a pic and post it up
oh well i had an opacity test done for fun at the local college and 96% black just doing me part ha ha ha
7inchstack
diesel dork
its wasnt to bad, had to go to a referee for a no CAT ticket, and they smoged me while i was there. pulled the smarty out, and left my CFM intake, and afe and ran a cat with a 4 inch stright through muffler. passed easy, the guy never even asked me about that stuff. wasnt to bad, i just think its kinda biased on the fact that he can fail you for smoke... some trucks smoke wen stock.. idk its all a way to get more money.
I talked to a smog rep today and asked him about my mods that are on my truck. He said that he would probably pass my truck with the 62-12 turbo because they don't have a list of what to look for or numbers to compare. He said that all he is going to look for is that there is a turbo there and no visible mods such as a wire tap of egr bypass. I asked him about putting an 07 or later turbo with exhaust manifold on the truck and he said he would probably pass that because if its normally stock on a dodge even though its a later model, it must be an improvement. I'll be going in in 55 days and counting.
True Diesel
New member
Naturally smoking trucks
Glad you found a shop that works. Obvious the Cat was not to much of a problem.
Some Trucks Smoke
They are supposed to recognize that sum trucks naturally smoke. I had the link that the C.A.R.B once had (Missing now?), it showed videos of how the inspection works. It even had a PowerPoint presentation on certain trucks that natural smoke. even listed them as passable. It showed the years, makes and models of each passable vehicle. I will be happy if the Banks Guy has a list and shows it. He has way better access then me.
:bang
If a vehicle is excessive. OK The truck won't pass. End of story. However; if it smokes a little and he says it does not pass. Fight IT! He probably was not trained well, and is over scrutinizing. Chances are he might not be a diesel guy. I would not nor will I ever let the smog guy fix my truck!
I will Back track, unless he is reputable and my truck is in fact non-compliance of the law, and he knows diesels I would let him do the work. I cant dump on all of the smog guys Most are honest.
Glad you found a shop that works. Obvious the Cat was not to much of a problem.
Some Trucks Smoke
They are supposed to recognize that sum trucks naturally smoke. I had the link that the C.A.R.B once had (Missing now?), it showed videos of how the inspection works. It even had a PowerPoint presentation on certain trucks that natural smoke. even listed them as passable. It showed the years, makes and models of each passable vehicle. I will be happy if the Banks Guy has a list and shows it. He has way better access then me.
:bang
If a vehicle is excessive. OK The truck won't pass. End of story. However; if it smokes a little and he says it does not pass. Fight IT! He probably was not trained well, and is over scrutinizing. Chances are he might not be a diesel guy. I would not nor will I ever let the smog guy fix my truck!
I will Back track, unless he is reputable and my truck is in fact non-compliance of the law, and he knows diesels I would let him do the work. I cant dump on all of the smog guys Most are honest.
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7inchstack
diesel dork
yea, not having a CAT was a $840 ticket... so id wouldnt call it a small problem. lol
True Diesel
New member
CARB Fraud Exposed
Well I found the info! a friend scanned me a news clipping not sure what paper. It might peak your interests. The Diesel Industry and Consumers ought to rally on the CARB for this and force them to act responsibly, and shelve the regulations till they have correct data!
CARB Fraud picture by Axe-of-God - Photobucket
If you cant read this PM me, and I will E-mail it to you. very important info.
Well I found the info! a friend scanned me a news clipping not sure what paper. It might peak your interests. The Diesel Industry and Consumers ought to rally on the CARB for this and force them to act responsibly, and shelve the regulations till they have correct data!
CARB Fraud picture by Axe-of-God - Photobucket
If you cant read this PM me, and I will E-mail it to you. very important info.
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True Diesel
New member
You should be able to click on the link. use the tool bar above image and zoom in on the article.
7inchstack
diesel dork
true diesel, thank you! that is awsome info. and its completely true. the company i work for runs a fleet of 14 super dumps, end dumps, and transfers, and transports and all but 2 of those trucks need $25,000 in emissions Cr** put on them to meet these emissions. and to be honest we flat out dont have the money and work to spend that much on them... weve had to down size our fleet and were still strugeling, and that dosnt include the 80+ pieces of equipment we have to make payments on...this new law/regulation is B.S. and WILL put alot of businesses out of business.