03-04 .vs. 04.5+ Cam Difference?

fordassassin

FordAssassin
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Nov 12, 2008
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My motor has been apart and is getting reassembled next week. I and a Buddy were talking about Cams.

What is the difference in a 03-04 Cam and a 04.5-07 Cam?

Also, whats the benefits of a aftermarket cam in a 03-04 truck and a 04.5-07 aftermarket cam?

I was deciding between Zach Hamilton Cam and Diesel Pro Flethcer cam or for money issues, leave stocker in unless I hit a sponsor or donation :thankyou2:
 
Don't think there's any diff on 03/04 vs 04.5+

I've been told that the LSA is better on the 24v cams if your gonna do a regrind....

But a Stock cam is fine for High hp...Several have proven it...
If you have the spare change, an aftermarket may help a bit...
 
Stock will be fine...unless you're trying to hit the 1k hp mark!
 
I heard the 04.5+ cam was different than the 03-04 cam because the EGR crap.

I don't have any spare change, but the motor is out and I don't want to do it unless I really have to.
 
They may be different, but the egr crap didn't show up til late 07. Also everything that has to do with the egr is external on the motor except for the nasty soot going back into the intake from the exhaust.
 
They may be different, but the egr crap didn't show up til late 07. Also everything that has to do with the egr is external on the motor except for the nasty soot going back into the intake from the exhaust.

Not true....Your thinking of the 07.5 ( emmisions for 2010 requirements )

The CR cam did have some EGR built into the cam profile ( LSA , overlab, etc ). Creates some egr within the engine itself...I'm not a come expert by ANY means but this is what they are refering too....
 
The 04.5 to 07 5.9 cams had in cylinder EGR built in. These cams would leave the exhaust valve closed alot longer than the 03-04 305/555 motors creating an in cylinder EGR effect. The cam along with the 3rd injection event is what causes the oil to get sooty quick. The 04.5 and up trucks gain the most from an aftermarket cam. If money is tight, leave the stock cam in since you have an 04.
 
They may be different, but the egr crap didn't show up til late 07. Also everything that has to do with the egr is external on the motor except for the nasty soot going back into the intake from the exhaust.


negative ghost rider
 
Thanks big swole and spooler. I was unaware of that. Some guys on here is the reason why I don't get on here anymore. The conversations go from trying to help someone out to treating someone like an idiot. I'm familiar with the egr systems on the cummins isx. And once again I'm not sure whether theres any difference on the inside of the motor or not. All I mess with is the valves and coolers and some sensors for the setup. Some people just sit here and wait for people to screw up so they can go off and read something and come back and prove someone wrong.
 
Thanks big swole and spooler. I was unaware of that. Some guys on here is the reason why I don't get on here anymore. The conversations go from trying to help someone out to treating someone like an idiot. I'm familiar with the egr systems on the cummins isx. And once again I'm not sure whether theres any difference on the inside of the motor or not. All I mess with is the valves and coolers and some sensors for the setup. Some people just sit here and wait for people to screw up so they can go off and read something and come back and prove someone wrong.

No problem man!

Don't let the few discourage you from coming here...Its just the game of life...Most on here truly want to help. I'm a complete dumba$$ compared to some/most of the guys on here...There is lots of knowledge to be shared...I'm trying to soak it up like most of us....
 
The 04.5 to 07 5.9 cams had in cylinder EGR built in. These cams would leave the exhaust valve closed alot longer than the 03-04 305/555 motors creating an in cylinder EGR effect. The cam along with the 3rd injection event is what causes the oil to get sooty quick. The 04.5 and up trucks gain the most from an aftermarket cam. If money is tight, leave the stock cam in since you have an 04.

there's your answer joey...
 
Don't let the in cylinder EGR mith cause you to spend money you don't need to. There's no way exhaust gasses are going to reinter your cylinder while your turbo is pressurizing the charge air. A cam doesn't make as much differance with forced air induction as it does with gassers with unaided induction.
Billy
 
... except that the engine is basically NA until the charger lights.
 
Don't let the in cylinder EGR mith cause you to spend money you don't need to. There's no way exhaust gasses are going to reinter your cylinder while your turbo is pressurizing the charge air. A cam doesn't make as much differance with forced air induction as it does with gassers with unaided induction.
Billy


What if the drive pressure is as high as the boost pressure?
 
What if the drive pressure is as high as the boost pressure?
At high boost the drive pressure most likely is a bit more than boost but that will most likely be at higher RPM. At mid to upper RPMs the velocity of the exhaust gasses leaving the cylinder and the inrush of fresh air won't leave much chance of reverse flow before the exhaust valve shuts. Now if you had a cam that was too much retarded or too much overlap you could possably get reverse flow and a poorly running motor with no power. But gas motors with non boosted charge air like over lap and retarded cam timing at very high RPMs. "7000-9000"
Billy
 
The 04.5 to 07 5.9 cams had in cylinder EGR built in. These cams would leave the exhaust valve closed alot longer than the 03-04 305/555 motors creating an in cylinder EGR effect. The cam along with the 3rd injection event is what causes the oil to get sooty quick. The 04.5 and up trucks gain the most from an aftermarket cam. If money is tight, leave the stock cam in since you have an 04.

X2


Doesn't the exhaust valve just close a little prematurely and trap some of the exhaust in the cylinder?
 
X2


Doesn't the exhaust valve just close a little prematurely and trap some of the exhaust in the cylinder?
The exhaust valve would have to close before the piston makes TDC on the exhaust stroke to trap much gasses. My 04.5 CR has both the intake and the exhaust slightly open with the piston TDC on the exhaust stroke.
Billy
 
The part numbers for the 03-04 and 04.5-07 is the same, and I have talked to several cam builders who say they are the same.

The cam has a very tight LSA, and a short exhaust duration. This action is known as incylinder EGR, simply it opens early, and closes earlier to keep exhaust in the cylinder, and to keep the cat hot (this and the timing are why the 04.5+ trucks run so hot).

The OEM cam isn't as efficient as other cams due to the EGR effect. It also doesn't spool turbos as fast as it could due to the shorter duration (shortest duration of any CTD in a Dodge). The second part of the in-cylinder EGR is the piston bowl design on the 04.5-07's.

On stock tuning an aftermarket cam doesn't make a noticeable change in max power, it just allows it to come on sooner. On heavily fueled motors you will see a bit of a difference due to the restriction of the OE cam.

I recently had a Cold Cams Stage 1 put in my trucki ts the mildest cam sold (Same as PDR cam, and Hamilton 175/206), so the effects aren't huge, but they are quite noticable. The exhaust lift/duration is actually the same as a stock 2nd gen, but thats 7.8% more duration than stock, and the intake is 7.4% more duration and 6% more life than stock. The lobe separtion is also drastically changed, which in itself means much cleaner air as the lobe sep on a 3rd gen cam creates an EGR effect (and this was the main reason I did a cam swap).

The differences it made were a stronger feeling bottom end, the turbo spools a bit faster in the 0-25 psi range, 25-30 psi is the same, and 33-35 is easier to obtain. 30 psi of boost is obtained at the same rpms, 1950; but consider 30psi with the cam is a lot more air than 30psi with the stock cam.. so there is much more air to the cylinders much sooner.

The EGT drop isn't huge at high boost levels, but a lot of that is the 9cm housing on the OE turbo. I see a larger peak boost EGT drop stock than with the Smarty tuning. But I would say the 100* EGT drop I reported is mostly from the cam, the intake mods don't do as much at higher rpms/boost as they do in the mid range. And really any EGT drop is great, as I am letting more exhaust out of the cylinder, and the EGR effect is gone, so thats even more hot air coming out.

My next plan is a turbo, either a 62/65/12 or a VGT.. but probably a 62.

Cam's aren't cheap, but its a worthy mod.. now if I could just find the excuse to go on a road-trip to check the mileage. But cruise boost actually seems a little lower (again less boost for the same air), but that should help mileage.

If someone was after a large change from a cam I suggest the bigstick, not the bottom end cam.

Bottom line, if the engine is torn apart I would cam a 3rd gen.. If its not, it all depends on what you want out of it.

At high boost the drive pressure most likely is a bit more than boost but that will most likely be at higher RPM. At mid to upper RPMs the velocity of the exhaust gasses leaving the cylinder and the inrush of fresh air won't leave much chance of reverse flow before the exhaust valve shuts. Now if you had a cam that was too much retarded or too much overlap you could possably get reverse flow and a poorly running motor with no power. But gas motors with non boosted charge air like over lap and retarded cam timing at very high RPMs. "7000-9000"
Billy

On a stock 3rd gen the DP is 2:1 if you disable the WG from about 1500 rpms up. Even not WOT the DP is 1.2-1.5:1.



And your not reversing flow, your simply closing the exhaust valve early and trapping it in there.

It happens, accept it. How else do you think Dodge was able to meet 04.5 emissions without an external EGR?

camprofile.jpg
 
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