1993 Chevy 6.5 Fired, Hello 24V

9

93Chummins

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Dec 31, 2013
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I may be in over my head on this project.:doh: The fabrication that will be involved is not an issue, but the electrical intricacies are making me question the route I've chosen, 24V rather than the 12V. I purchased a complete 2WD donor truck for the same price a 12V motor would've cost, so WTF, right? The unsuspecting patient is a '93 Chevy Crew Cab 3500 Dually 4x4 6.5TD. I've decided to do a Solid Axle Swap as well because it will allow more room for the motor to be mounted. The front wrap has been removed and the entire powertrain and IFS has been sold and nearly paid for the donor truck. :snoop: More to come as soon as I figure out how to post images and such. Thread Newbie.
 
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These photos show all IFS mounts removed. I chose to leave the upper shock mounts hoping that I'll be able to use them. Don't know yet. My frame was coated heavily in oil the 6.5 decided not to use. It did, however, preserve the carriage quite well. Very solid and no rust. Purpose well served, 6.5 :clap:. I would advise power washing thoroughly before setting a torch to it. Depending on how good you are with a torch, time spent grinding can range from minimal to never ending. I deleted the frame motor mount pads as well. This is not necessary. Others have used them, but I didn't like the appearance and custom, application specific mounts will serve my future plans for an Eaton 13 spd tranny much better. I'm trying to design heighth adjustability into them.
 
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IMAG0303.jpgI sourced my Solid Axle Swap components from Offroad Design. I've been a welder/fabricator by trade for 20 years and I have to say the workmanship/quality of the leaf spring hangers supplied is SUPERB! It's what I call true American craftsmanship. They are not without issue, however, in their design. The fronts, pictured above, fit the frame rails extremely tight. Forget a nice powder coat job prior to install unless yours prove to be looser. Persuasive device needed for mine. Also, I had to mill a slot about an inch long to get the pictured bolt up through the bottom. IMAG0304.jpgThere is alot of drilling required, 2 per side for fronts and 6 per side for rears. Transfer punch, pilot hole then 7/16" or 1/2" finish. Not too bad. IMAG0305.jpgNever got good photo of rear hanger installed, but here is one spring finished. Some more advice, trial fit all metal bushing sleeves. I found some needed to be shortened. Also, bevel outer edges of rubber bushings. They like to hang up when sliding past bolt holes. I even lightly hit the outside faces with a grinder to narrow them up a bit. Grease is a must.
 
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Here it is, rolling again. I opted for 1900 lb. rated springs for the front, 3800 combined. When I set the front weight of the truck on them, they flattened out quite a bit. I'm hoping they are enough for the added Cummins weight. The 6.5 ain't no baby, so here's hopin. One more note on the products supplied by Offroad Design. The Dana 60 install requires crossover steering, normally steers from the driver's side. The pitman arm in their kit did not want to "clock" itself correctly on my steering shaft. Sooooo, I had to spend 45 minutes with a rat tail file and take out all the indexing splines of the pitman. I was a little upset after spending $450 and hours of head scratching over what was wrong and how to fix it, but if I had read all the paperwork, I would have known the solution :bang. The truck has been rolled out and my donor in to begin disassembly. Stick around.:woohoo:
 
Thanks, Adam. I appreciate the comment. Motor/tranny are ready for removal. I took the opportunity while the motor was in the truck and comfortable height to fix the timing case dowel pin(KDP). Fortunately, mine had not budged a bit. I used this truck as a parts/tools hauler and country cruiser for a couple months constantly on pins and needles knowing damn good and well this issue had probably not been resolved. For once I caught lady luck in a good mood. Undoing the wiring harness from the motor was a gas, particularly the driver's side as a lot of you know. I labeled all connectors and I'm waiting on my factory wiring schematics manual to begin that dreaded task. I'm hoping I will get some help from members here that have experience with that. I'm also going to replace the front crank seal in the timing cover.
 
I didn't catch which tranny/tcase you are using and how much of the dodge PCM you plan on integrating, but...

You can keep your instrument cluster oil pressure and coolant temp by reusing the chevy sensors in the cummins block with some common adapter bushings.

If it is a dodge 241 TC then look into using the chevy 241 back half to retain the VSS and keep your speedo factory.

This is a quick way to wire up the 24V to run. Not sure if you want/need the OBDII port, that would take some more wiring though:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?9767-24V-VP44-swap-questions&p=74194#post74194

This guy did a similar swap to you, but a 12V, but he used dodge tranny/Tcase, maybe it will answer some more questions:

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cummins-conversions-shop-talk-tools-fabrication/381669-1993-chevy-cummins-conversion.html

I still have a running/driving 6.5 in mine, so if you forget what went where, I'll be glad to help where I can.
 
With regard to the wiring, Wiring up the 24valve assuming its 98.5-02 is easy. That's said, did you carefully unlace the harness from the old engine and save the sensors to reuse with the Cummins? Will make it much easier to keep existing dash instruments working with the new engine.

I am in the middle of swapping an 01 24 valve into my 98 Yukon. I opted to do the solid axle swap too but am doing it with the dodge axle and 4 links with trac bar all being transplanted with it. For any adapters or conversion parts the folks over at AutoWorld MT are great to work with and produce great quality stuff. I am using their quadmounts and some other parts. Will be running compounds with headwork and some other fun stuff. Good luck with the swap,its totally worth it!!
 
Thank you both for the interest, encouragement and help. Means a lot. Here's the run down: donor truck is a '98 2500 2WD auto. I'm using a divorced passenger drop Dodge T-case behind the 47re. The only electrical I plan to keep in tact on the Chevy is all lighting, radio, blower motor, wipers, power locks/windows. I'm deleting the A/C as well. Hell I got 4 windows. I'm not concerned with the OEM instruments. I want to build my own gauge cluster with aftermarket white faces. I did not retain any of the original sensors. You're right, it will be worth it. Always good to hear good things from those who've been where you are. Thanks again. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks, AHarvey. Checked out your C10. Hope you get to it soon. Your power goal shouldn't be too hard to reach. I'd be more concerned with frame strength, but nothing is impossible. I've never looked at a project and thought, "It can't be done." Good luck.
 
Thanks. Yeah the frame had me worried as well so now its boxed front to back, and it's getting a roll cage.
 
93Chummins said:
Thanks, AHarvey. Checked out your C10. Hope you get to it soon. Your power goal shouldn't be too hard to reach. I'd be more concerned with frame strength, but nothing is impossible. I've never looked at a project and thought, "It can't be done." Good luck.
Click to expand...

The frame on my F150 is (currently) not boxed or strengthened in any way, and my conversion has been done for nearly four years. But as I steadily increase power, it needs to happen at some point.
 
OK, here we go!

Finally getting ready to put motor in it's new home. Only difference in my setup is I've decided to ditch the auto for an NV4500 Dodge model. I've removed all wiring from the Dodge back to the fuse block in the cab. Again, I'm planning to use all aftermarket gauges and use the Chevy's electrical for lights, heater, windows/locks. My question is, what is the minimum wiring required from the donor to make it run and how do I tie it in to the Chevy? Need all the help I can get here. 4thesporty? MacGyver76? Anybody? Thanks in advance.
 
Minimum to make it go would be in the 4btswaps link i posted earlier. You just need the ECM for this. A few 12v+ connections and a few grounds. Then just make a throttle cable.

Since all your gauges will be aftermarket, those will be all standalone.

Chevy electrical (PW/PDL, etc) should still be working, right? All that connects through the fuse box and should probably not be messed with.

If using the grid heater, you can wire it up to a momentary switch via relays. There are fancier ways to do it using the chevy GP controller, but it sounds like you want simple.

What else am I missing?
 
Sooooo good to hear from you, 4thesporty. Thought I lost you. Think I can handle the power and ground wires. I'll start there. One question, for right now is, since I've opted for the 5 spd manual over the auto trans, do I (a) need a manual trans ECM or (b) reflash my auto ECM for the different tranny? Yes, my assumption that the PW/PL, heater and such will all still be supplied power via the OEM firewall mounted junction block. Thank you for all your help. It means alot.
 
I'm not 100% but I think going auto to manual would only give a CEL, going manual to auto would cause the problem with the ECM, if it does anything at all.



I would ditch the PCM though

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Does this mean I can delete the Dodge's Power Distribution Center as well? In other words, supplying power from the Chevy junction block to the VP44 and ECM? None of the wires on the motor harness are needed, for my set up, other than the power, grounds and ones from injection pump to the ecm? Sounds a little to easy to me. Forgive me, but my understanding of electronics is beyond basic and I don't mean on the advanced side of it.
 
Found this on another site while browsing and thought of this thread. This is from user Roachie, who, I believe, is also a member here..

VP WIRING

There are 2 engine harnesses, one with a single body plug and one that has 2.

The VP has independent power that needs to be supplied by a simple relay. Theses relays have 4 posts (some have 5, if so disregard post 87a)

Post 30______constant hot

Post 86______brown and white from the engine harness

Post 85______ground

Post 87______Red/white or Red green from the engine


Single plug

VP44 relay control_____Brown/white tracer______________relay post 86

VP44 Power__________ Red/white tracer________________relay post 87

ECM power___________Heave gauge red/ white tracer______Constant hot

ECM/sensor grounds___4x black/brown tracer____________GROUND

Key on ECM__________light green/black tracer____________ignition hot

Grid heater__________yellow/black tracer and orang/black tracer____small posts on dodge heater solenoids


2 plug body harness


Plug with white lever:

VP44 relay control_________brown/white tracer_____________relay post 86

VP44 power______________Red/green tracer______________ relay post 87

ECM power______________Large red/white tracer___________Constant hot

Key on ECM______________light green/black tracer_________ignition wire key hot

Black plug

ECM and sensor grounds________Black/ brown tracer________GROUND

Grid heater________yellow/black tracer and orange/black tracer_____small posts on dodge heater solenoids




00-02 engines need to retain the WHITE/ORANE wire from the harness. This gives a speed signal to the ECM so it will fuel.

Looking at the FORD PCM from the TOP you will see the chassis plug on the far right. The the firewall end of the plug will have Gray wire with a black tracer. Attach the White/orange wire from the dodge to this wire. DO NOT CUT THE GRAY/BACK WIRE!!!!! SOLDER ONLY


On the truck, just keep the A/C wires, oil pressure (1 wire), water temp (two wires), and refer to destroked for the tach parts.
 
Thanks, Adam. I've been researching it and found that the ECM needs power supplied by the 2 red w/white wires as well as the one red w/white to the Injection Pump. Both need grounded also by their black w/tan wires. Sounds pretty simple so hopefully this is correct. One question, I was sorting through the wiring from my Chevy and there is a heavy gauge purple wire from the driver's side bulkhead connector. The factory schematic shows this wire going to the starter on a gas motor, but I can't find where it goes on the 6.5. It has no terminal or connector on it and the end is dirty so I know I didn't cut it when removing the motor. Thanks for everything.
 
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