215 pump

I'd like to see someone with a similar setup post up their tuning information as well. plate/not plate and what afc spring worked the best in their opinion. I plan to try several springs. I did this before but have changed setups alot, and only tuned the way that seemed to work the best. With a plate. Did the OP get questions answered?
 
ok sorry for the derail but we could use a load dyno, that way you could see what "useable" power, overall power, and a local track to see who comes out on top.. thats what I would like to see.. acctually would love to see.. that would show and shut a lot of people up about what they think they know from the internet and the real world tuners..
 
DEZLFREK said:
I would love to see a diesel tuning challenge happen, to identical stock trucks and a budget on the same dyno and track.. lol who really knows how to tune.. be kinda like put your money where your mouth is..
Click to expand...

Too many variables could exist between each truck such as motor condition, turbo condition, pump condition, etc.

Have one truck and one combination made known to the tuners. Give each tuner whatever plate, afc springs, and whatever governor adjustment ability they want in addition to timing changes whatever. See what they get. Then turn it over to the next. Whoever turns the best e.t./average horsepower between say 1800-3200rpm wins.
 
NickTF said:
Too many variables could exist between each truck such as motor condition, turbo condition, pump condition, etc.

Have one truck and one combination made known to the tuners. Give each tuner whatever plate, afc springs, and whatever governor adjustment ability they want in addition to timing changes whatever. See what they get. Then turn it over to the next. Whoever turns the best e.t./average horsepower between say 1800-3200rpm wins.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't have to use junk..you could simply u se fresh rebuilt motors with all new parts.

There are several different parameters which could be used for to vary the competition over time.
 
SHughes said:
You wouldn't have to use junk..you could simply u se fresh rebuilt motors with all new parts.

There are several different parameters which could be used for to vary the competition over time.
Click to expand...

I still think using one truck would focus better on the ability of the tuner if that is what's in question.

The idea of an Engine Masters based diesel build off is very interesting and neat and would certainly be beneficial but for the masses modding stock motors with 50-200k miles on them I like the idea of what i've suggested better. $.02

The thing is when Engine Master challenges begain the general public was able to read about all of the secret tricks and reasoning behind parts choices/setup which is incredibly useful especially for the max effort guys. But diesel modding is mostly done on stock stuff which is why I would like to see it focus more in that arena (i.e. a truck with 130k on the clock or something). Either way would be beneficial.
 
I agree with you to a point.

Maybe start with reman motors (all identical) and a purpose for tuning, i.e. towing or racing, then you get to select parts and begin playing around.

Same could be done next tiem for d-max's, then 6.4's then CR's....
 
Why not use the same truck and swap the pumps? That would narrow down the variables to pump condition.
 
burnin oil said:
Why not use the same truck and swap the pumps? That would narrow down the variables to pump condition.
Click to expand...

Because that would introduce the variable of pump condition. Why not just use the same pump in addition to truck? I don't see what would be gained by swapping pumps when it comes to a person's ability to tune. again my $.02
 
What about two trucks with radically different setups and each tuner gets a chance to do both setups. To me a good tuner should be able to do anything from mild to wild.
 
NickTF said:
Because that would introduce the variable of pump condition. Why not just use the same pump in addition to truck? I don't see what would be gained by swapping pumps when it comes to a person's ability to tune. again my $.02
Click to expand...

can you shed some light on what pump conditions would change effects of running a plate/no plate. Which pump are you talking about specifically?
 
SLIPPY said:
can you shed some light on what pump conditions would change effects of running a plate/no plate. Which pump are you talking about specifically?
Click to expand...

It's possible some of the plunger/barrels could be a bit more worn in two different 180 pumps etc. I'm talking about any pump.

If you want to narrow down to someone's ability to tune keep all variables other than tuning related variables out of the equation; can't be any simpler. If one is working with a pump with looser tolerances, an out of shape governor assembly, etc. than the other this can skew results.
 
NickTF said:
It's possible some of the plunger/barrels could be a bit more worn in two different 180 pumps etc. I'm talking about any pump.

If you want to narrow down to someone's ability to tune keep all variables other than tuning related variables out of the equation; can't be any simpler. If one is working with a pump with looser tolerances, an out of shape governor assembly, etc. than the other this can skew results.
Click to expand...

i swapped 180 pump at 160k miles for a new one. No difference
 
Last edited:
SLIPPY said:
ya but would it
Click to expand...

What do you mean would it? If you were to have two tuners changing governor tension, afc settings, timing, and plate settings on the same pump it eliminates the possibility of differences between two different pumps skewing the results. This is not debateable.

I see you've edited the post i've quoted. It's certainly possible there would be no difference between two 911 pumps but it can't be ruled out with 100% certainty easily so why not just work on the same pump. Again, can't be any simpler.
 
Last edited:
i tend to agree with leaving the pump on the truck and tuning from there. Give a 2k budget past dealing with the trans.. this would give some leadway and still limit it to some real world uses.. use the same truck. start with a stock truck and dyno before and reset it to exactly the same numbers before each competitor.. should be easy enough..
 
DEZLFREK said:
i tend to agree with leaving the pump on the truck and tuning from there. Give a 2k budget past dealing with the trans.. this would give some leadway and still limit it to some real world uses.. use the same truck. start with a stock truck and dyno before and reset it to exactly the same numbers before each competitor.. should be easy enough..
Click to expand...

I'd say not even a budget beyond the typical pump parts (AFC springs, gov springs, plates, DV's). Start throwing turbos and injectors at it, its no longer a tuning challenge, but a shopping challenge. If a mag is doing the challenge, have them lay out the assortment of parts that are allowed to be used. Have stock, 3k, 4k, 5k GSK's, springs for the AFC (including gov springs if desired), all the plates of the rainbow, plus a stock plate and a grinder, and a couple options of DV's. Give them the same truck (1 truck) to have them work their magic on the pump, dyno it, do some street tests, bring it back, yank their parts out and let the next guy do it. Get a 5 speed truck or a built auto already so that is taken care of. I'd say do a manual just for the ability to do a idle to redline dyno run without having to worry about downshifting and lock up issues.

Tyler's idea of a mild and wild test would be interesting, especially if the wild truck has twins or triples or something else out of the ordinary, then that can be tuned in as well. No swapping of major components though. Tune what you have.
 
Last edited:
Tate said:
I'd say not even a budget beyond the typical pump parts (AFC springs, gov springs, plates, DV's). Start throwing turbos and injectors at it, its no longer a tuning challenge, but a shopping challenge. If a mag is doing the challenge, have them lay out the assortment of parts that are allowed to be used. Have stock, 3k, 4k, 5k GSK's, springs for the AFC (including gov springs if desired), all the plates of the rainbow, plus a stock plate and a grinder, and a couple options of DV's. Give them the same truck (1 truck) to have them work their magic on the pump, dyno it, do some street tests, bring it back, yank their parts out and let the next guy do it. Get a 5 speed truck or a built auto already so that is taken care of. I'd say do a manual just for the ability to do a idle to redline dyno run without having to worry about downshifting and lock up issues.

Tyler's idea of a mild and wild test would be interesting, especially if the wild truck has twins or triples or something else out of the ordinary, then that can be tuned in as well. No swapping of major components though. Tune what you have.
Click to expand...

exactly, the only things to change would be: plates, afc setups (modding stock parts only no custom cast oddness), governor tension adjustment (using same governor springs), timing adjustment, and that's about it. I too like the suggestion of doing it on a mild setup and a wild setup. Not interested in turbo swaps, injector swaps, or anything like that for this challenge.
 
i have to dissagreed about being able to do the injector swap.. thats parts of this tuning debates ive been seeing and wanting defined proof for along with maybe the ability to do a cam challenge after all that another hot topic thats opinion based.. see i would like to see some clearifications that are more public.. like with a plate or without, injector angles, you get it.. what "works" better.. ive been doing this for a while so i keep hearing people say things that arent always true.. I have tried most of them. When something works i keep using it until something else works "better".. I just dont like paying double because someone says that their stuff is that much better.. prove it. thats were this started for me.. prove it..
 
Ron Allen has tested more injectors, non biased, than anyone I know. He makes well informed decisions, documents things very well, and is very open minded. If you need to be reassured of anything, his opinion is one to be trusted.
 
You don't have to take my word for it.

stock600 said:
Thanks Weston, I agree for thier size they made big power. With no more nitrous than I ran on the truck it still never cleaned up. I agree with the timing rec. it ran hard and pulled great to 4200 or so with ~24-26* timing; I remember trying them at 30* static with those small bowls and the power fell way off and it was obvious from the pistons that it was way out of the bowls. It's going to vary a small amount if a stock thickness gasket is used though, I always ran the 3283339 piece.

Ryan
Click to expand...
 
Ron was the one helping me with those 435's and yes i have talked with him. a lot about this but still no magic injector has been found from my knowledge.. I understand you indepth knowledge of injectors and nozzles but i still havent seen anything or been proven that its that much better if at all than injectors costing much less..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top