95' Junker Drag Truck

at 41psi of boost what is your drive pressure at? arent you going to have a mechanical failure of the headgasket due to the high drive pressure before you grenade the turbo? just asking.

Garrett
 
High cylinder pressure from the culmination of high timing, lots of fuel, and lots of air is much more likely to push out a head gasket than 60-80 psi drive pressure.

I honestly haven't measured the drive pressure on this particular setup. That said, it usually takes anywhere from 60-75psi of drive pressure to start floating the wastegate puck on these HX35s so I'd venture to say drive pressure maxes out around 65psi at 41psi at 3000 rpm. On small turbine wheeled turbos, engine RPM seems to have the greatest impact on drive pressure.
 
I've heard mixed thoughts on this, but what about removing the divider in the exhaust housing? It's gotta help the front 3, equalizing the drive pressure between the front 3 and back 3 cylinders that is if you were still using the wastegate the way it was meant to be used. And you could port the wastegate so when your drive pressure does get to the point of forcing the puck open, it will relieve a little more pressure which can't be bad, can it?
 
I say go find a big truck yard turbo run it as a single for the drag truck. It'd be a nice comparison too, hx-35 to s400/ k31 single.
 
i did a k31 single right off a detroit it worked surprisingly well.......and cheap
 
I have that HT4B sitting in my garage. I just don't think an 83mm by almost 130mm compressor will spool well as a single with stock 160 injectors......

In time I will have the twins built but for now it is fun to "tinker" with things like timing to see what effect it has on ET and most important MPH.

The track is open again this Friday so I should be able to get some good data on the effect of 024 DV's vs stock 131's when you're pushing small stock injector's and plenty of timing.

Honestly, the only other turbo I might try before the twins is an He351ve with the exhaust housing set to a fixed geometry with an adjustable bolt so i can make back to back passes with different exhaust housing sizes to see the effect of overall boost with that turbo on a restrictive 12valve head.

My thinking is that with an He351ve VGT, it will make most power... most MPH.. when the housing is shut down to around 9cm and boost runs above 55psi. The He351ve is not an easy bolt on change but I don't want to sacrifice my good spare He351cw since it is destined to be the top turbo in my twins setup.
 
The only modification since last time out when it went 15.1 with a best MPH of 87.41 is the removal of stock 131 delivery valves and installation of DDP magic 024 delivery valves. I paid less than $250 for this upgrade and it was good for a calculated 50 rear wheel horsepower.

Details of my passes at the track tonight, 9 total passes.

Best 60' time was 2.338
Best MPH was 93.28

Best pass:
60' - 2.338
330 - 6.188
1/8 - 9.415 @ 75.58 MPH
1000' - 12.239
1/4 - 14.651 @ 93.03 MPH.


I also got a close holeshot win over a newer Corvette.

Mine: His:
RT - .321 .741
60' - 2.489 2.985
330 - 6.471 6.897
1/8 - 9.737 9.915
MPH - 74.86 82.60
1000 - 12.580 12.474
ET - 15.004 14.612
MPH - 92.68 105.96

Margin of victory .0286 seconds


Reaction of Vette owner: ricer fly-by on the return road and the middle finger.

Reaction of a select few in the crowd: head nod or two and one guy clapped.
 
Smoked a vette, check :Cheer:

I think you'll find a restrictive 9cm housing would kill top end power with high drive pressure, unless its gated well.

I love the scientific approach btw.
 
Congrats! You're starting to get the Truck to move! I'm not surprised about the later model Corvette owner... Typical Comb over reaction...
 
Dang, if you had made your best pass of the night with that RT you would have more then covered his margin of victory, oh well.

Very cool little project you got going on there.
 
The Vette did get sweet revenge on the very next pass. The staging lanes were short and so I decided to hot lap the Junker. As I came around the tower, there was three cars waiting and lucky me, the open slot was next to that same Corvette.

Unfortunately, in the excitement of the run, I hit the wrong toggle switch at the line and turned on O/D instead of lockup.

I spun right out of hole, it short shifted to second as I lifted to gain traction. Without lockup, it took a while to get to third but wait, I had flipped the wrong toggle at the line..... it banged from 2nd unlocked to 4th. Basically 100% driver error on my part. Probably the same set of scenarios that happened on the previous run except I had the bad luck instead of the Vette.

Mine: vs. Vette
RT - .202 .529
60' - 2.45 2.084
330' - 6.459 5.768
1/8 - 9.826 8.726
MPH - 73.15 83.57
1000' - 12.716 11.261
ET - 15.164 13.385
MPH - 92.01 106.56

Margin of victory 1.4525 ....... I got smoked by a Vette! I hope it made his day to get revenge and beat a 1995' Junker with 241K miles.
 
Are you planning to overload in the fuel department before adding more air? It would be interesting to see what kind of E/T's you can pull with those big injectors alone.

You're still on street tires, correct?
 
Current mods: 4K GSK, 60lb valve springs, DDP 024 DV's, torque converter, shift kit, few other tranny upgrades.

Free mods: 24* timing, fuel plate removed, AFC worked over, over-torqued head bolts, bolted & welded rearend.

Running 285/75/16 A/T's at 20psi on the stock 16" steel wheels on the rear. 245/75/16 on the front.

I'm seriously considering running the 5x.018 injectors with a HE351ve. I don't want to blow up the almost new WH1C with tight bearings when I have an almost worthless HE351ve sitting on my shelf. Plus the HE will probably handle the extra fuel a little better.

The next midnight mayhem race isn't till the end of May so I have a few weeks to "tinker" and see what I can come up with. I really need to build some caltrac style traction bars because 2.38 to 2.6 60' times aren't going to cut it.
 
at 41psi of boost what is your drive pressure at? arent you going to have a mechanical failure of the headgasket due to the high drive pressure before you grenade the turbo? just asking.

Garrett



Why would 80 to 100 or so lbs of drive blow a headgasket that might routinely see over 3000psi of combustion pressure?
 
I rigged up an He351ve vgt turbo off an 07.5+ 6.7 Cummins. I'll post pictures later today. Compared to the stock HX35, it makes less whistle but a LOT more whoosh....rushing air sound. This turbo made it smoke a little more on the very bottom end like half way through first gear but it definitely hits harder when the turbo comes up to 20+ psi boost.

I'm still tuning the initial opening and max opening settings so I don't have much feedback about spoolup and peak boost. It will say that turbo actually barks less with the spring controlled vgt than it did with the stock turbo.

Also, I can now free rev to 4000 rpm whereas with the stock turbo, it only free rev'd to 3850 rpm.
 
A few pictures of the "custom" .... home made He351ve turbo setup. I purposely used about 3-1/2" of 2-1/2" exhaust pipe to move the turbo down to make an easy connection for the cold pipe. I added a little piece of "L" steel top and bottom to help support the load, especially when it might see 2000* F by the end of a 1/4 mile run.

For the downpipe I used some scraps of 4" EMT electrical conduit that I scavenged from a trash dumpster on one of my construction sites. I mitered the angles and fit them as best I could. Then I "dry-fit" all of the exhaust downpipe using 3" pieces of metal strapping and sheet metal screws as gussets. Once everything fit and looked to have adequate clearance, I removed everything and welded up the joints with my cheap harbor freight 120volt flux core welder. After welding, I reinstalled the gussets to help support my less than professional welds. The 4" EMT has an inside diameter of 4.25" so it still has plenty of flow without nice mandrel bends. The exhaust system ends just short of the rear axle since that's where I ran out of free conduit.

For the oil supply, I reused the stock line and removed the threaded adapter fitting from the stock HX35 and threaded it into the HE351. For the oil drain, I reused most of the stock steel 3/4" drain and just cut off the last few inches that bend down 90*. At the block, I reused about half of the steel nipple insert and cut if off just before it made a 90* bend. I then used a 6" piece of 3/4" fuel line from a big rig shop that I had left over from another project a few years back.

For the cold pipe, I removed the stock cast aluminum elbow entirely and just used the stock 3" bent cold pipe. To make the cold pipe line up correctly, I flipped the stock pipe around so the shorter leg of the bend was directed to the charge air cooler and longer leg directed toward the He351ve's discharge. The cold pipe and turbo discharge met at a perfect 45* angle so I bought a $20 silicone 2.75" to 3" bending 45* reducer from siliconeintakes.com. I also had to buy a 2.75" t-bolt clamp for the turbo outlet.

To control the variable geometry housing, I welded up a small frame out of 3/4" angle steel and drilled to holes to line up with the bolt holes on the HE351ve body. I was able to reuse the 5mm allen head bolts from the He351 as well. There is an adjustable bolt that limits how tight the exhaust housing can close down. I then have a heavy spring that I mounted onto a peg that's mounted onto the stock control arm and an adjustable turnbuckle on the other end. There is a second bolt mounted vertically on the center section that I use to control the maximum opening size of the exhaust housing. If you take careful measurements on the inside of the housing and the moving parts, it's apparent that the housing is able to open too far to where it creates a useless cavity behind the turbine wheel. At my current level of fueling, the difference between maximum opening and say 75% open is only 2-3 psi boost, however the motor does run a little freer when it's allowed to open in the 90%+ range.

As I'm sure everyone has seen on youtube, you can close the housing down so tight that it screams/whistles at idle. I test drove and a lot of different levels of tightness and although really tight does make the motor have a lot of torque at idle and great throttle response like a gas powered v-8, it kills the mid range and creates excessive smoke and turbo lag.

With the housing a little more open, the off-idle response is just like the stock turbo with a little more lag in the lower mid range but a much much firmer hit when the turbo fully spools.

For example, with the stock turbo and identical fueling/AFC setup, from a dead stop: WOT will spin the tires half way through 1st gear and most of the way through second. The just a small chirp going into 3rd.

With the 351ve identical fueling/AFC setup, from a dead stop: WOT will chirp the tires a little in first then seems to experience turbo lag till second gear. Instantly when the TQ locks in second the turbo smacks/spools hard and blows the tires off through all of second gear and half way through third gear. This turbo feels like it added 25 HP with my current fueling and it does run really clean when boost passes 30 psi. Max boost right now holds 38psi and spikes to 40psi on the 3-4 shift.
 

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I am still tuning this HE351ve but I can already comment on the fact that the larger heavier turbine wheel and bigger bite from the larger compressor wheel makes this turbo spool a little slower than the stock HX35 turbo. I know we were all hoping that the VGT housing would magically make all turbo lag disappear but it doesn't .

I daily drive a HE351cw fixed geometry 9cm on my 99' and the spool up of the He351cw is closer to stock HX35 than the HE351ve. Plain and simple, the VE has a larger turbine wheel and simple physics tell us that a larger diameter takes more energy and larger weight (mass) takes more energy to speed-up (accelerate).
 

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