AirWerks Pro Street going Outlaw!

EMcBride

EMcBride

Hoosier Stormtrooper
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
459
Well, not yet anyway-
There will be a rules meeting for Pro Street at the conclusion of Sunday's event during the Texas Diesel Nationals. if you want to have a say, please attend.
Proposal:
Remove index, leave weight restriction out;
Open transmission rule up to allow for any trans;
Open up for one piece front ends;
Leave all other rules (frame rails, safety items, etc)

Initial thoughts?
 
I can't make it to Houston, but I have sent my Pro Street thoughts to the DHRA Tech official. I'm guessing my thoughts will have less weight since I'm not running for points in the series, but I sent them anyways.
 
EMcBride said:
Well, not yet anyway-
There will be a rules meeting for Pro Street at the conclusion of Sunday's event during the Texas Diesel Nationals. if you want to have a say, please attend.
Proposal:
Remove index, leave weight restriction out;
Open transmission rule up to allow for any trans;
Open up for one piece front ends;
Leave all other rules (frame rails, safety items, etc)

Initial thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'm down with everything except for the tranny rule. $18k Liberty trannies are not going to make it easy to compete with the hitters.
 
Agree with Tim on trans situation. Keep pro street same so we have no tube chassis stock frames make it 4000 lbs no time restriction we will come back .We will also be in houston
 
It will give a huge advantage to the lightweight 2WD small race-only trucks, and will stifle Allison development, and will favor Kamikaze Drug Trucks that only last a few passes.

But if you do decide to go that path, make the rules for at least a few years, as the way to be competitive will be to build a specific ground-up truck/car at great expense. 3000lb S-10 Powerglide truck anyone?
 
3000lb S-10 Powerglide truck anyone?
Click to expand...

That's actually what I think would make an indexed class better. Allow the mini trucks with diesel transplants and keep the index. 3200lbs needs what, 550-600hp to tune a 10.50 at any event location? Much more reliable than the 850-900hp they currently need to competitively run 10:50.

As an added bonus, the lighter trucks will be safer when we get to the inevitable mishap. I'd much rather roll a 3000lb truck with a full cage than a 4500lb brick with a rollbar. Although, I'd prefer to not roll them at all.
 
Here is the deal as I see it.... If I offend...well....sorry.

Back in the good old days we had 5-8 PS trucks that showed up and put on a show. It was a fairly inexpensive way to race and the trucks were actually drivers. Now $$$ and ego have taken over the deal, and you have to have 100k to outrun the hitters on this side of the country. All of the rules changes(weight, index, etc) have been made to put more trucks in the show, and we still have 5-8 showing up. It is hard for the average guy to afford to hit 5-6 big races a year. Any organization that wants to have a class such as this and run it in an unlimited eliminator type format needs to address 2 things to make it sucessful.

1) Safety. 5500 Lb trucks (2wd or 4wd) going 140 are not safe....period....I dont give a damn if there is a 7.50 cage in there or not. 7.50 cages are spec'd for 3300lb camaros, not heavyass trucks.

2) Economies of Scale- the class will never grow unless a bunch of dieselheads hit the lotto or the cost to enter drops greatly. Dennis, Earl, Jeff, Darren, Jimmy, Buck, Chris: I love you guys but I cannot outspend you. The field will double if we can somehow figure out a way to make a $20k truck competitive. Now, I realize that 20k will not outrun 100k, but if it gets close and folks have fun....they will show up to race .
 
The trans issue makes it cheaper, if you pay 6500 for a lenco, how much for a fully built Suncoast or ATS? $7000? It's a choice, just like in the Pro vehicles-Darren and Texas Diesel run truck transmissions, it's a choice, that's all. You have every right to continue to run/develop the Allison and such.
Food for thought.
 
I agree with Tim that a lighter truck is safer, alot safer, but I am sure alot of people, like me have no desire(or the money) to build a 3500lb tube frame truck. To get more people racing make it more competative. I agree there needs to be a class for a 3000-4000lb truck built for nothing but running down the track. But I think there should a a PS type class for full weight trucks. i would take the lightest of the big 3, in a single cab 2wd base truck (no power window's or anything) and set the weight limit at that. A 6500lb truck will have a very hard time keeping up with a 3500lb truck.
just my thought
robert
 
alldiesels said:
i would take the lightest of the big 3, in a single cab 2wd base truck (no power window's or anything) and set the weight limit at that.
Click to expand...


That makes sense to me.
 
EMcBride said:
The trans issue makes it cheaper, if you pay 6500 for a lenco, how much for a fully built Suncoast or ATS? $7000? It's a choice, just like in the Pro vehicles-Darren and Texas Diesel run truck transmissions, it's a choice, that's all. You have every right to continue to run/develop the Allison and such.
Food for thought.
Click to expand...


A lenco wont work in a 6000 Lb truck, but if you put an 18k Liberty in a 3000 lb truck, nobody will be able to touch you.... It might as well be Pro Diesel with a frame.... They will run 8's
 
Timbeaux38 said:
I'm down with everything except for the tranny rule. $18k Liberty trannies are not going to make it easy to compete with the hitters.
Click to expand...

If you look at what guys are spending each year to keep the factory transmissions and converters in these trucks a Liberty, Lenco or other will be much cheaper for everyone. There is not one truck in PS that doesn't have transmission issues during the season and most several times. By cutting the weight of the truck it helps a lot to keep parts alive but it's also pretty damn hard to keep a stock looking truck and get it to 4000 lbs so a lower weight limit would help even the field. Not picking a number here but I do feel that something is needed. I think the class should be limited to full size trucks after all that's what the diesel motors come in but any limit on what sheet metal,carbon fibre or fiberglass is used provided it keeps the stock body size and shape should not matter.The chassis should not much matter either as setting a lower weight limit evens that up, and let's face it at the speeds we are currently running we are anything but safe. If the doors open and close and it's got the proper safety equipmnet it will be much safer than what we are doing today.

If people want to run in a less expensive area run in Quick diesel but move the index from 12.0 down to 11.50 as that is a number most street trucks can get to these days. This would let them run about as hard as they can with a limit still in place.
 
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Diesel Tech said:
If you look at what guys are spending each year to keep the factory transmissions and converters in these trucks a Liberty, Lenco or other will be much cheaper for everyone. There is not one truck in PS that doesn't have transmission issues during the season and most several times. By cutting the weight of the truck it helps a lot to keep parts alive but it's also pretty damn hard to keep a stock looking truck and get it to 4000 lbs so a lower weight limit would help even the field. Not picking a number here but I do feel that something is needed. I think the class should be limited to full size trucks after all that's what the diesel motors come in but any limit on what sheet metal,carbon fibre or fiberglass is used provided it keeps the stock body size and shape should not matter.The chassis should not much matter either as setting a lower weight limit evens that up, and let's face it at the speeds we are currently running we are anything but safe. If the doors open and close and it's got the proper safety equipmnet it will be much safer than what we are doing today.

If people want to run in a less expensive area run in Quick diesel but move the index from 12.0 down to 11.50 as that is a number most street trucks can get to these days. This would let them run about as hard as they can with a limit still in place.
Click to expand...


I'm going to attempt to translate :poke:

Steve is tired of banzai thrash sessions to keep trucks in the show and wants to spend more time enjoying adult beverages in the pits after hours with us.:hehe: Remember, Jeff's tranny was okay for 2 years before it finally ate a shaft in Indy.
 
Lenco/Bruno

O kay here is the deal a new Bruno is 3900.00 New COAN MEGA converter is
2500.00 a used LENCO 4500.00 =10900.00 but you will never brake a tranny
you can now work on your TRUCK & your DRIVING, This will make it a better
class for the RACER & FANS
 
The goal is to have a class where racers who want to compete in a heads up eliminator will have a stable place to run. This kind of eliminator is not an entry level class, and the rules should not try to make it so.

That said the rules should be simple, easy to police, even for all three manufactures, and not allow a runaway rules dictate an expensive unlimited hp war to make the trucks unreliable parts eating monsters.
If you can achieve this then the potential sponsors will definitely take notice.

First the chassis should be a reasonable weight I would start at 4200 lbs; with rules similar to NHRA Super Stock modified Truck for chassis. This is an all steel truck with fiberglass hood permitted. The rear suspension is open with 4 link permitted.

The engines need to be a place of development and not a unlimited, unreliable money pit.
To rules as easy to police as possible, he is a few suggestions.

No limit on turbo’s or the number of turbo’s, only that the atmospheric turbo or turbo’s must breath thru a single restriction donut, of a given size this size should not be any bigger then possible to make a reliable amount of power, just a starting point would be around 2.50 inches. With this restriction the carnage that we all have seen will be lessened.
Next allow one nitrous solenoid with a sealed restrictor jet in place. This solenoid will be on loan from the DHRA, and would be subject to exchanged by a tech official at any time. Water injection like wise is allowed, with spec water provided by whoever sponsors that aspect of the class. You show up with an empty water container.

200 lbs Weight break for OEM style transmission, the reason, simple, these vendors are a big potential source of sponsorship moneys at these power levels and weights the breakages will go down.

The power level needs to be around 800 hp with this the trucks will run well in to the 9 second range. Just as in NHRA’s Pro Stock a set of rules that have been stable for over 20 years has produced some great racing and development. If the power level is unlimited then you will get the same results as Pro Mod, and while that racing is great, Been There, done that, it’s about who will toss the most parts at it round after round.


If you will notice in everything you leave open the opportunity for major sponsorship, from transmission, nitrous, water injection, and other vendor

One other thought at the end every season, the donut could be adjusted for a slower type OEM engine.
 
Greg, Charlie,

While you both have very valid points, dont you think that the tube chassis are where the focus of the big $$ should go? I realize you have both raced big time COMP eliminator, btu we are trying to graow a class and having to have $11k (Charlie's figure) in a tranny does not make it easy for the weekend warrior to go out and compete.

My point is this, we can drop weight restrictions and let smaller budget teams get close, but if we open up ultra trick tranny parts,(and other big $$ parts) the same teams will be at the top, and there will still be half of a ladder to fill. Most fans treat top diesel and pro street like the nitro categories......they want to see more trucks go more rounds..
 
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