6 Wheel
Learner
the biggest advantage to an auto is the ability to spool on the line. in a manual trans you cannot spool up the turbo before launching
Who says you cant do a boosted launch in a manual? i beg to differ
the biggest advantage to an auto is the ability to spool on the line. in a manual trans you cannot spool up the turbo before launching
How much money are we talking about putting in the best, most reliable, able to hold the most power auto tranny? I know for fords they have the the bts 4r100, for under 5k. How about for behind a 12v?
If you can afford to build, race, and pull a 750hp truck the tranny isn't going to save you a significant amount of money either way.
And if a few hundred dollars is the difference in affording it or not can you really afford the truck and breakage that WILL happen?
Manual trans people just don't understand...
I enjoy driving a crisp manual, and I can shift as fast as the next guy, usually faster... but I'm smart enough to understand what's going on with a manual trans as well.
First off... with a manual trans, no matter if the shift takes 1 second, or 1 microsecond, the engine and the drive wheels WILL be disconnected on EACH and EVERY shift. Period. You CANNOT be in one gear as you apply the next. One gear MUST be disengaged before the next can be engaged. Under high power this leads to a LOT of driveline shock. Aside from putting undue stress on the driveline it puts undue stress on your ability to maintain traction... something that becomes more and more critical as power goes up.
Second problem with a manual. Each and every time you shift brutally fast, although still slower than an auto shift, you are murdering the syncros. Because the weight of the clutch required to hold a decent engine producing 1000+ ft/lbs of torque is going to be HEAVY, in comparison to a lighter clutch designed to hold say 500ft/lbs. Dual disc???? Forget it..... You might as well plan on sticking it in gear and leaving it, or including transmission R&R in with your routine oil change intervals... It's a catch 22. If you run a single disc, it's lightweight, and will shift decently (although much slower than an auto, even if your name happens to be Jesus) but it won't hold sh*t. And if it's a multidisc, it'll hold great, but the disc weight makes syncronizing a formidable task, and lightening quick shifts come at the cost of SERIOUS syncro and collar wear. All the while making comparitively grandma shifts next to an auto trans.
Third problem... You can't launch. Okay sure..... lets say you have a line lock, and you start in 3rd gear and slide the clutch out to make the pass. You really think this compares to a centrifugal slider or a torque converter??? Please... Next, because of that whole disengage/engage thing on each and every shift, as opposed to an auto that GAINS boost on each shift, the manual loses it. Maybe not much, maybe you don't even notice, but it damn sure doesn't jump UP a few psi does it?
Basically, manual transmissions are for tow trucks. And even that is debatable.... but I can at least see the appeal.
For hauling ass, there is no debate. RWHP for RWHP the auto wins. As vehicle power gets lower and lower approaching stock, then the manual seems like a capable trans. Simply because the parasitic loss is a bit less, and at pathetic power levels, everything is happening so slowly, and the loads on vs off the power between gears are miniscule. But you start dealing with a vehicle that's unloading the front suspension on power and a manual just starts losing ground hand over fist.
The manual trans lost it's place in this world when the lockup torque converter went mainstream.
Lastly....
There's a repeating theme of manual trans guys talking about choosing the shifts and such. Do you guys not understand what a full-manual auto is???
You act like you're totally oblivious to the ability to CHOOSE EXACTLY when and where you make FULL THROTTLE shifts with a full-manual auto.
And gassers and diesels suffer the same fate. Gasser manual cars lose to auto cars every day just the same. Except as stated above, when the power is pitiful and the bit of extra loss through the auto breaks the deal. Which hopefully isn't a valid scenario for anyone on this site....
Full manual auto FTW.
(Coming from a manual guy that swapped to a full-manual auto after exhausting all options on keeping the manual alive in a DD)
Charles, enlighten me on what to do if an auto will NOT hold up behind a 12v.Not even for one 1/8 mile pass.
Build one that will. It doesn't necessarily have to be a torqueflite, although they're seeming to be doing just fine.
Charles, enlighten me on what to do if an auto will NOT hold up behind a 12v.Not even for one 1/8 mile pass.
I run, and have been running for 3 years now, north of 1000 hp through my automatic (48RE) and other than the occasional forward clutch replacement it has been bulletproof.
Point me to someone who can. I have had the best transmissions and converters that are available. I have had enough of running a pass and pulling the trans. I am keeping our truck in the shop till I can find something that works and I can afford.
About every season I replace the forward packs. There is usally a fair bit of debris in the pan by the end of a season. I have a few extra clutches in there, billet basket etc