Axle Joints

[Supershafts]

The better spicer joint in the aam axles

I do not remember who it was that asked me about the axle joints and getting greasable version spl joints... i remember telling them i'll check and see if the spl55 cross will work with the 5006813 caps, i have done this with other joints over the years to make it either a stronger or longer lasting joint, or just to get someones shaft done that they no longer make those series joints for.

It's gonna be a little expensive but what i did was this...

The spl55-4x is the greasable body joint, then buy the 5006813 and put the 5006813 caps on the spl55-4 cross.

If you grease them here and there, it should be the last axle joints you ever need.

Now you are left with a spl55-3x, which is the non greasable dana front axles found in dodges and fords.... find a friend with that truck and sell them the now spl55-3x joints you made with the spl55-4x caps and the 5006813 cross.

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[1pieceatatime.]

The better spicer joint in the aam axles

I do not remember who it was that asked me about the axle joints and getting greasable version spl joints... i remember telling them i'll check and see if the spl55 cross will work with the 5006813 caps, i have done this with other joints over the years to make it either a stronger or longer lasting joint, or just to get someones shaft done that they no longer make those series joints for.

It's gonna be a little expensive but what i did was this...

The spl55-4x is the greasable body joint, then buy the 5006813 and put the 5006813 caps on the spl55-4 cross.

If you grease them here and there, it should be the last axle joints you ever need.

Now you are left with a spl55-3x, which is the non greasable dana front axles found in dodges and fords.... find a friend with that truck and sell them the now spl55-3x joints you made with the spl55-4x caps and the 5006813 cross.

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5006813 $54.10
SPL55-4x $46.03
SPL55-3x $37.60

So realistically, you could recoup some money by selling your Home made SPL55-3x, the problem is mixing and matching caps with the sealed U-joints usually ruins the seals in the cups, so this SPL55-3x you just made by playing mix and match will probably have a life span comparable to one of those crappy Brute force joints you buy at advanced auto parts.

 

[LReiff]

I'm not worried about my personal truck. I want a good joint to offer my customers. The life series joint properly greased and installed last a long time. 99% of joint failures stem from improper installation.

 

[1pieceatatime.]

I'm not worried about my personal truck. I want a good joint to offer my customers. The life series joint properly greased and installed last a long time. 99% of joint failures stem from improper installation.

The life series joints want no additional grease. Also, i dont think ive ever sold the same guy 5006813s more than once for the same truck. Another guy who buys his Dana parts from me and resells alot has reported basically the same experience. He also says the spicer version outlasts the AAMs by quite a margin.

You are 100% correct about improper installation. Although maybe i would lend a few more failures to cheap parts.

 

[Supershafts]

5006813 $54.10
SPL55-4x $46.03
SPL55-3x $37.60

So realistically, you could recoup some money by selling your Home made SPL55-3x, the problem is mixing and matching caps with the sealed U-joints usually ruins the seals in the cups, so this SPL55-3x you just made by playing mix and match will probably have a life span comparable to one of those crappy Brute force joints you buy at advanced auto parts.

There is no way to hurt the seals... There/This is no home made joint, if you knew anything about the SPL line then you know all changes are made to the caps so they can use the SAME cross and have no need for multiple crosses and caps.
The crosses are the same, all the SPL series are changed thru the cap, this holds true with the 1310 series and 7260, different caps, the 1330 and 3R, different caps, the 1330 and 7290, different caps on the same cross as does all the other series.

If you think removing the caps is going to hurt the seals, then you better never take them outta the box.
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Comparing that to bruteforce is just dumb, and i can't see how you could.

LReiff I'm not worried about my personal truck. I want a good joint to offer my customers. The life series joint properly greased and installed last a long time. 99% of joint failures stem from improper installation.

The spicer outlasts the aam joint, but buy using the SPL55-4 cross you'll never have to do it again.

 

[1pieceatatime.]

There is no way to hurt the seals... There/This is no home made joint, if you knew anything about the SPL line then you know all changes are made to the caps so they can use the SAME cross and have no need for multiple crosses and caps.
The crosses are the same, all the SPL series are changed thru the cap, this holds true with the 1310 series and 7260, different caps, the 1330 and 3R, different caps, the 1330 and 7290, different caps on the same cross as does all the other series.

If you think removing the caps is going to hurt the seals, then you better never take them outta the box.
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Comparing that to bruteforce is just dumb, and i can't see how you could.




The spicer outlasts the aam joint, but buy using the SPL55-4 cross you'll never have to do it again.

I understand all the crosses/trunions are the same and they make up they .005" by moving the snap ring groove. But if you knew anything about the products you sell, you would realize that these joints we are talking about come with one of these guys in the box

So what im getting at here is this SPL55-3x that is not a new in box joint, rather a by product of this 1485 series greaseable forged joint. In turn, the seals in this SPL55-3x that has been assembled from other parts will not be as reliable as a new SPL55-3x. I had this very conversation 2-3 years ago with a 4wd shop owner ( who happens to be a dodge buff) that i do ALOT of business with.

I know you think im breaking your balls like that yoke deal, but we are in the same business and im just trying to tell you i have been there and done that and your not looking at this from all angles.

 

[Supershafts]

We may be in the same business, and you may read that paper and give it all the validity you would like to and misunderstand what it is stating at the same time.

I have over 35 years of this experience of making joints when they do not exist by mismatching caps and crosses.

I have made many joint conversions like this with many other series over the years sometimes because they no longer exist and sometimes simply because like this avenue the only greasable that exists is the china junk joints and this IS the optimal set up that i have hundreds of customers asking me for, cold forged and greasable like the spl 804/55-1, so when spicer takes another few years to get to what i have been telling them, they'll do it themselves by doing exactly as i have.


Over 35 years, i have yet to see any of the joints i have made like this experience a failure.

That paper is there to keep people with no clue (customers and even many in the driveline business) from pulling all the caps off, setting them to the side mixing them all up, and the suction pulling the packed grease out of the cross journal and now you put the cap with all the grease onto the cross journal with the grease, and the cap with no grease in it onto the now empty cross journal cup... THAT IS WHY that paper exists, the other shop owner may need a class on driveline, the only reason the reliability is a factor is from not understanding why it's happening.

Many reasons why i always tell people let the professional do it, but i have seen many a professional mistake whats going on and why and screw it up also, as you just found out here.

Now I always repack the journal cup myself, and make sure the neo spacer hasn't came off.

When Spicer 1st came out with the spl line we found there claims a little exaggerated so we tested them, when the 1st gen line came out with the weak crap seal covers which was nothing more than cosmetic we would see anywhere from 80 to 120k, when i packed them with syn grease we got them to over 180k, then we asked about greasable versions of the spl and finally they made a 1310 version like 6 years ago, then slowly they made a couple more.

You'll never touch a front axle joint again with the 55-4 cross and the 6813 caps if you add some grease to them as needed.

No offense, but you might want to talk to other shop owners, there are a load that haven't a clue as to why or how... I only found 2 that have a clue, 1 in CA and the other makes AL shaft parts.
I don't take offense and i don't think you're breaking my balls, i see you are mistaken in why that paper is warning against mixing up the caps, and you had someone else also not understanding tell you misinformation also. I look at everything from many angles, it's why i have been doing things everyone else except maybe one shop in CA say can't be done. .


You don't work at dennys? or the other shop up there that's more a machine shop?

 

[1pieceatatime.]

We may be in the same business, and you may read that paper and give it all the validity you would like to and misunderstand what it is stating at the same time.

I have over 35 years of this experience of making joints when they do not exist by mismatching caps and crosses.

I have made many joint conversions like this with many other series over the years sometimes because they no longer exist and sometimes simply because like this avenue the only greasable that exists is the china junk joints and this IS the optimal set up that i have hundreds of customers asking me for, cold forged and greasable like the spl 804/55-1, so when spicer takes another few years to get to what i have been telling them, they'll do it themselves by doing exactly as i have.


Over 35 years, i have yet to see any of the joints i have made like this experience a failure.

That paper is there to keep people with no clue (customers and even many in the driveline business) from pulling all the caps off, setting them to the side mixing them all up, and the suction pulling the packed grease out of the cross journal and now you put the cap with all the grease onto the cross journal with the grease, and the cap with no grease in it onto the now empty cross journal cup... THAT IS WHY that paper exists, the other shop owner may need a class on driveline, the only reason the reliability is a factor is from not understanding why it's happening.

Many reasons why i always tell people let the professional do it, but i have seen many a professional mistake whats going on and why and screw it up also, as you just found out here.

Now I always repack the journal cup myself, and make sure the neo spacer hasn't came off.

When Spicer 1st came out with the spl line we found there claims a little exaggerated so we tested them, when the 1st gen line came out with the weak crap seal covers which was nothing more than cosmetic we would see anywhere from 80 to 120k, when i packed them with syn grease we got them to over 180k, then we asked about greasable versions of the spl and finally they made a 1310 version like 6 years ago, then slowly they made a couple more.

You'll never touch a front axle joint again with the 55-4 cross and the 6813 caps if you add some grease to them as needed.

No offense, but you might want to talk to other shop owners, there are a load that haven't a clue as to why or how... I only found 2 that have a clue, 1 in CA and the other makes AL shaft parts.
I don't take offense and i don't think you're breaking my balls, i see you are mistaken in why that paper is warning against mixing up the caps, and you had someone else also not understanding tell you misinformation also. I look at everything from many angles, it's why i have been doing things everyone else except maybe one shop in CA say can't be done. .


You don't work at dennys? or the other shop up there that's more a machine shop?

I gave that paper ZERO validity when i first started installing these joints, that was a lesson learned the hard way some years back. I laughed, until i noticed that not only was a breaking the dust cap ( which i used to keep in stock and periodically replace), but actually dislodging the seals.

I fully understand whats going on crossing these joints and have sold a few pairs for the customer to cross over with the distinct understanding that the seals may or may not fail prematurely on the left over. SO what do you do with the SPL55-3x that is a by product of the hybrid? Sell it for half price to offset the cost? Thats fine and well as long as the end user understands whats going on and why that paper is in the box.

No i dont work at Denny's. There are alot of other shops "up there" in the vast "upstate" area that makes up 98% of NY.

Who is SuperShafts a subsidiary of? Dennys must be the same way as they are not listed as a Dana distributor either.

 

[Supershafts]

I gave that paper ZERO validity when i first started installing these joints, that was a lesson learned the hard way some years back. I laughed, until i noticed that not only was a breaking the dust cap ( which i used to keep in stock and periodically replace), but actually dislodging the seals.

C'mon you took a picture of it and posted it here, you gave that piece of paper all the validity you thought it held and then went to add on someone else's misunderstanding as to what it was therefore

The seal cover caps only needed a little heat, then they never break when installing. Take the caps off, remove the seal covers place them over the punch located above the heat gun, run the heat gun for a few seconds on all the covers and then instal the joint and none break.
Then spicer fixed them a few years later, and further fixed them again last year making the simple heat issue a thing of the past.

I fully understand whats going on crossing these joints and have sold a few pairs for the customer to cross over with the distinct understanding that the seals may or may not fail prematurely on the left over. SO what do you do with the SPL55-3x that is a by product of the hybrid? Sell it for half price to offset the cost? Thats fine and well as long as the end user understands whats going on and why that paper is in the box.

No i dont work at Denny's. There are alot of other shops "up there" in the vast "upstate" area that makes up 98% of NY.

Who is SuperShafts a subsidiary of? Dennys must be the same way as they are not listed as a Dana distributor either.

There is no left over, and no premature failure either, that is all on the person installing if there is a failure.

Some shops like the ford dealers only want the original joint so for me i just sell them the 55-3
Supershafts is a nickname given to me by customers and friends, then i added it to the shop around 8 years ago.

Which shop upstate is yours, i have property in kortright and margretville.

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[1pieceatatime.]

That paper is there to keep people with no clue (customers and even many in the driveline business) from pulling all the caps off, setting them to the side mixing them all up, and the suction pulling the packed grease out of the cross journal and now you put the cap with all the grease onto the cross journal with the grease, and the cap with no grease in it onto the now empty cross journal cup... THAT IS WHY that paper exists, the other shop owner may need a class on driveline, the only reason the reliability is a factor is from not understanding why it's happening.

SO your acknowledging the fact that mixing the caps up on the cross is an issue, but you support swapping them to a totally different cross?

 

[zstroken]

SO your acknowledging the fact that mixing the caps up on the cross is an issue, but you support swapping them to a totally different cross?

It seems to me he is saying that the grease gets pulled out of the caps, and unless you address that the caps don't have enough grease.

 

[not enoughsmoke]

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

 

[cummin get it]

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

I'm clicking the "like" button right now.

 

[Supershafts]

SO your acknowledging the fact that mixing the caps up on the cross is an issue, but you support swapping them to a totally different cross?

You are totally missing everything i just told you.... It is an issue for an idiot in our industry which hasn't any clue of what they're doing, which there are many of those.
It would only be an issue for someone having no clue and pulling the caps off of a 803/806/55-3 & 2 and using the 803/806/55-3 & 2 since those joints WILL need the cavity looked at and added to (which no one does and why they would have a problem in a short time period)

There is no issue mixing the caps to a greaseable cross of the same series...

You can't seem to get what im telling you, the only issue are, the issues are the grease can be sucked INTO the cap when you pull it off the SOLID cross...
Which that is why they tell you in the paper you posted not to mismatch which position it came off of...
When the is there you don't need the paper to see, oh the grease is gone from this SOLID crosses cavity... we need to put the grease back, that is a attentive and professional, detailed person that catches that without ever reading that paper.

When using the aam series cap on the 804/807/55-1 & 4 body you can grease it so it wouldn't matter it would only matter on the 803/806/55-3 & 2 body that you refill the grease cavity ...

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

precision is china junk and even greasing those pos they don't last, if pulling caps off is trouble i won't even go any further.

Other people were interested and wanted the best option, if you don't just leave it.

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It seems to me he is saying that the grease gets pulled out of the caps, and unless you address that the caps don't have enough grease.

Exactly, this is what professionals miss and botch up constantly.

 

[not enoughsmoke]

precision is china junk and even greasing those pos they don't last, if pulling caps off is trouble i won't even go any further.

.

thanks funny I have sled pulled for 2 years and have them in every truck i own not one problem

 

[Supershafts]

Sled pulling doesn't see prolonged use, and what a few hundred feet if you can make that..... but it's funny how you would compare that to prolonged constant axle engaged trucks with no freewheeling hub factory option and make such a poor argument for what good is.

I knew you couldn't wait to make such a statement that china junk lasts and that you doing sled pulling using china junk gives it more credit that its a good joint.

 

[1pieceatatime.]

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

WOW. thats the funniest $h!t ive heard in a looooong time.


Nevermind the prolonged use portion, the things are straight up JUNK.
75% of the driveshafts i balance that customers bring to me after they have installed there own precision brand joints need to have the brand new joints replaced. Why? Because the tolerance are so f'ing poor that the joints are loose right out of the box even when properly greased and installed.

 

[not enoughsmoke]

Sled pulling doesn't see prolonged use, and what a few hundred feet if you can make that..... but it's funny how you would compare that to prolonged constant axle engaged trucks with no freewheeling hub factory option and make such a poor argument for what good is.

I knew you couldn't wait to make such a statement that china junk lasts and that you doing sled pulling using china junk gives it more credit that its a good joint.

Sorry let me rephrase my statment
I sled pulled for 2years,pulled trailers,drive to work and they have been in my truck for over 5years say what you want.

WOW. thats the funniest $h!t ive heard in a looooong time.


Nevermind the prolonged use portion, the things are straight up JUNK.
75% of the driveshafts i balance that customers bring to me after they have installed there own precision brand joints need to have the brand new joints replaced. Why? Because the tolerance are so f'ing poor that the joints are loose right out of the box even when properly greased and installed.

The last guy that built a shaft for me said the same chit.He also takes 2 spicer u-joints and swaps caps and makes a joint for my driveshaft only to find out when i get home it doesnt fit.

 

[1pieceatatime.]

Sorry let me rephrase my statment
I sled pulled for 2years,pulled trailers,drive to work and they have been in my truck for over 5years say what you want.


The last guy that built a shaft for me said the same chit.He also takes 2 spicer u-joints and swaps caps and makes a joint for my driveshaft only to find out when i get home it doesnt fit.

Was your point here that what he said about precision joints untrue because he sold you the wrong U-joint? Because i can assure you precisions are scrap he is giving it to you straight. I know older guys rave about them and they used to be second only to spicer back in the day. I believe the manfacturer got bought by an Italian company some years back and thats when they went to ****.

 

[Supershafts]

The last guy that built a shaft for me said the same chit.He also takes 2 spicer u-joints and swaps caps and makes a joint for my driveshaft only to find out when i get home it doesnt fit.

What shaft? in what truck? is he doing this to? I'll tell you exactly what you need to do or what he is doing wrong.

Sorry let me rephrase my statment
I sled pulled for 2years,pulled trailers,drive to work and they have been in my truck for over 5years say what you want.

Wait, 5 years ago precision was a ok universal joint, somewhere around 3 years ago precisions parent company went all china and it is a china made joint and it's quality as everything else from china is junk.

Like stated by 1pieceatatime brand new they have issues.

now let me clarify.... IN a front axle truck with no FWH and a constant engaged front axle like that of the dodges with the AAM front axles those joints won't last, unless you grease them everyweek, and even then there is a good chance of failure.

Everything that comes out of china needs to be redone, everything people are having made in china i need to always do some corrective machining so they fit correctly. Wait, let me rephrase and clarify that...
EVERYTHING people are having copied by companies in china need to have corrective machining done when i get them in my hands.
Most china copy parts i send the customer back out the door with them, id rather lose that customer than deal with his ruining my rep from some junk he wanted to use and not telling people what really happened.

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If you bought them 5 years ago thats different than buying them in the last 3, now if you buy them you're likely not going to get lucky and get a precision that has been laying around but a china pos...

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

ESPECIALLY on the universal joint WE ARE SPECIFICALLY addressing here in this thread. . . looking at your sig and your trucks you might only have one of the trucks that can have that problem and rest don't have constant engaged axles.
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The idea here is to NEVER have to remove the axle again, by having the best of all worlds joint, cold forged, spl tech and greasable, and so far by what im seeing if you grease it once a year thanks to the superior spl design you'll never be doing another axle joint.
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Doing your

Why would you go thur all of that trouble? Just put a Precision joint in it and be done.

you'll be back in there or greasing it far more than once a year.