Building from scratch - Efficiency

Smokem said:
Depends on power level as stated. When you go about this you will have people asking direct questions, sit down and come up with direct answers, much easier that way.
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Understood.

I'd be very happy with 250-275hp from this engine. The rig will see everything from crawling on a technical trail, to climbing high elevation mountain passes at speed.


Mudn_1 said:
sweet cruiser! is that one of frankie's lifts?

Also, Bean has a 470 with a 4bt.... so he might have some info on the swap
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Thanks! The lift is actually a custom setup that I did. Uses 8" heavy springs, which are more like 6.5" with all the weight it's carrying.
 
I would recommend a Marine nozzle with the Non-intercooled piston, I see no reason for anything much larger than an HY35.
 
adventr said:
Thanks! The lift is actually a custom setup that I did. Uses 8" heavy springs, which are more like 6.5" with all the weight it's carrying.
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Oh ok... not sure if you know him but he was the only I am aware of building suspension kits for the big bodys
 
Smokem said:
I would recommend a Marine nozzle with the Non-intercooled piston, I see no reason for anything much larger than an HY35.
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Ok, I'll check out the marine injectors.

Interesting that you mention the HY35. It's basically a HX35 with a 9cm exhaust housing, right? Seems like everything I research on that turbo is telling people to move up to the HX due to high EGTs. Maybe those people are just throwing too much fuel at it though.

I do like the idea of a VGT turbo, and the control that I can have over the exhaust housing "size". I can think of several occasions where the exhaust brake function would come in handy as well.
However, if you are thinking that the compressor wheel is too large on the HE351ve, and it would not be at its efficiency range in the 250-300hp (max), then I'll get that idea out of my head.

Thanks for your input.
 
You will need to put a Marine nozzle on the smaller M12 holders(injector bodies) you currently have. Looking at the power level you desire an HY35 would very easily be sufficient. Misuse of different components oftens gives them the reputation they have earned, this is not the fault of the part, but rather the end user and their lack of understanding.
 
adventr said:
Ok, I'll check out the marine injectors.

Interesting that you mention the HY35. It's basically a HX35 with a 9cm exhaust housing, right? Seems like everything I research on that turbo is telling people to move up to the HX due to high EGTs. Maybe those people are just throwing too much fuel at it though.

I do like the idea of a VGT turbo, and the control that I can have over the exhaust housing "size". I can think of several occasions where the exhaust brake function would come in handy as well.
However, if you are thinking that the compressor wheel is too large on the HE351ve, and it would not be at its efficiency range in the 250-300hp (max), then I'll get that idea out of my head.

Thanks for your input.
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I made a hot 301 with a baby HC1 (50mm) so I think an HY35 will be a very good turbo for your power goals. EGT shouldn't be a concern, and response will be very good.
 
Smokem said:
You will need to put a Marine nozzle on the smaller M12 holders(injector bodies) you currently have. Looking at the power level you desire an HY35 would very easily be sufficient. Misuse of different components oftens gives them the reputation they have earned, this is not the fault of the part, but rather the end user and their lack of understanding.
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Ok, so are the Marine nozzles something that I install, or is it something that is done at the time the injectors are being rebuilt?
I don't know the history/mileage on the injectors that came with my engine, so I'm going to assume they are worn out.


I agree on the HY35. Do you feel that there is anything to be gained by using an aftermarket camshaft (whether it be Colt or Hamilton) and aftermarket exhaust manifold on my setup? It seems to me that both would let the engine breathe more efficiently, but I could be wrong.

If you rule out an aftermarket cam, would you just have the factory camshaft reground as part of the rebuild? What about tappets?



Sorry for all of the questions... I'm just wanting to make sure that I cover all of my bases here. I'd rather spend the money up front, than have an issue later on!
 
JQmile said:
I made a hot 301 with a baby HC1 (50mm) so I think an HY35 will be a very good turbo for your power goals. EGT shouldn't be a concern, and response will be very good.
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That's nice to know that the baby H1C can support that!


Another thing that I am questioning, is my need for an Intercooler. I don't have room in the core support for the typical air-air intercooler (it's full with the large radiator, a/c condensor, aux electric fan, power steering cooler, trans cooler) BUT, I do have an option to run an air-water intercooler between the turbocharger and intake.

The cruiser will never be used for towing purposes, but it is quite heavy and aerodynamically challenged. So, I'm still up in the air so to speak.
 
adventr said:
That's nice to know that the baby H1C can support that!


Another thing that I am questioning, is my need for an Intercooler. I don't have room in the core support for the typical air-air intercooler (it's full with the large radiator, a/c condensor, aux electric fan, power steering cooler, trans cooler) BUT, I do have an option to run an air-water intercooler between the turbocharger and intake.

The cruiser will never be used for towing purposes, but it is quite heavy and aerodynamically challenged. So, I'm still up in the air so to speak.
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I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but unless you're seeing long periods of sustained loads or full throttle bursts, you probably don't need an intercooler. My 89 does alright without one.
 
JQmile said:
I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but unless you're seeing long periods of sustained loads or full throttle bursts, you probably don't need an intercooler. My 89 does alright without one.
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That's what I've heard from people as well. The longest duration loads that I can envision, would just be climbing mountain passes at highway speeds (think I-70 through Colorado), and those certainly wouldn't be done at full throttle.

Maybe I'll just run without an intercooler initially, and then if there are any issues, I can add the air-water intercooler. Water/meth triggered by manifold pressure could be an option as well.
 
Don't go aftermarket can of you use that restrictive turbo. Especially without an intercooler. The HE's support more air and will be cooler.

Personally since wheel speed will be needed on occasion, i would go with an he351cw and a 4k rpm spring. It will help keep the egts cooler and won't choke out on the top end.
 
Both the HY35 and HE351 use the same size turbine wheel and turbine housing, both have divorced wastegate locations, the HE351 does have a bit smoother transition into the down pipe. I don't see the larger compressor being "required", but either should work well.
 
adventr said:
That's what I've heard from people as well. The longest duration loads that I can envision, would just be climbing mountain passes at highway speeds (think I-70 through Colorado), and those certainly wouldn't be done at full throttle.

Maybe I'll just run without an intercooler initially, and then if there are any issues, I can add the air-water intercooler. Water/meth triggered by manifold pressure could be an option as well.
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If your horsepower goal increases, then maybe, but I can run up grades all day and never see over 900 deg as long as I shift down a gear. Keep your rpm up, just another way of getting more air into the engine at a certain HP level.
 
Ok, so I've figured out what I'm doing for injectors. About decided on the turbo that I'm going to run, and have decided to do some mild port work on my head before I drop it off at the machine shop (smooth out bowls, match exhaust ports, nothing major).

Next, I need to know which engine parts should be replaced "while you're in there."

Pushrods?
Tappets?
Should original cam be reground at all?

I'm assuming the valves can be reused. Anything else I should make sure my machine shop does while they have the block and head?
I'll have them assemble the bottom end for me (install pistons, rods, crank), and assemble the head (valves, springs)

Should I use new freeze plugs?
 
Tappets AND cam, or neither. (The older of the two will clash with the newer surface, greatly reducing life expectancy, at best).

- Assuming normal wear, I'd expect both could have their surfaces renewed at a better cam shop.

- If you install new valves, be sure to inspect the valve-stem's related surface of the rocker-arms. Correct as needed.

- Considering the age of the block, I'd renew the freeze-plugs as a predictive maintenance thing.
 
I'd do a block-off on the rear freeze plug while you're in there....I don't know about in your swap situation, but when mine blew I had to have the trans dropped in order to get it out. Keating Machine makes them.

12_valve_billet_rear_plug_1.jpg
 
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