Compound of a different flavor....a WG dilemma...Of the VW variety

Open the primary gate last resort.

Why are you trying to get it down to ~30psi?

45psi overall with 20psi out of the primary sounds like the system is working well. What was the Drive pressure or EMP?


Oh and I would still put a softer spring in the external gate. Regardless of the calculations.
 
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dvst8r said:
Open the primary gate last resort.

Why are you trying to get it down to ~30psi?

45psi overall with 20psi out of the primary sounds like the system is working well. What was the Drive pressure or EMP?


Oh and I would still put a softer spring in the external gate. Regardless of the calculations.
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tuner wants to know that we can limit boost to ~30psi, he is worried that when we start adding fuel (ECU is still on a break-in tune, very little fuel) that the boost will just continue to increase, thus breaking "stuff"...

regulator came in yesterday, so going to try get that installed and do some testing with that today
 
fouckhest said:
tuner wants to know that we can limit boost to ~30psi, he is worried that when we start adding fuel (ECU is still on a break-in tune, very little fuel) that the boost will just continue to increase, thus breaking "stuff"...

regulator came in yesterday, so going to try get that installed and do some testing with that today
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I am going to text Mark right now, he is being silly thinking he can keep compounds down to 30psi.

Put the lightest spring you have in the external gate, and use the regulator to make adjustments up from there. You may get it down to 30psi overall, but it will likely feel like you are running just on the primary as a large single.
 
fouckhest said:
tuner wants to know that we can limit boost to ~30psi, he is worried that when we start adding fuel (ECU is still on a break-in tune, very little fuel) that the boost will just continue to increase, thus breaking "stuff"...

regulator came in yesterday, so going to try get that installed and do some testing with that today
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If the gates are set right, boost shouldn't increase that much. Joe de-tuned his 1,000rwhp dmax to 400rwhp and 30psi for my drive to SEMA in Las Vegas this weekend....bastard.....so it can be done.
 
As soon as he hooks up his primary gate it could be done, but it would limit power drastically that way too.
 
Spring alone will be a poor way of tuning it. Just spring more or less sets up the pressure drop across the turbine and you would have to go so light on the spring that your going to hurt secondary charger response when you are off boost and have no gate signal.

Set up the gate signal and it should make a significant difference. Might even be able to go back to the stronger spring to keep the secondary chargers response at a maximum. (Using gate signal to override it)

Still possible you might need to gate the primary if its on the small side. If you do, it was sized pretty poorly.
 
Kick Start said:
Could you not use blow off valves like they use in the source automotive kits? Would bring down total boost.
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NEVER DO THIS!!!! Those are some of the worst idea's ever put into use!

As was said all they do is create a boost leak, so you end up with oversped chargers, and high drive pressures, and hot egt's.

I truly wish Source would stop selling those, and thus stop propagating that bs.
 
Joesixpack said:
... Might even be able to go back to the stronger spring to keep the secondary chargers response at a maximum...
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I skin the cat differently, I like to use the lightest spring I can, and then use manifold pressure to the top port and controlled signal to the bottom port for final control. This makes you run the boost controller backwards and you start with it 100% open and work towards closing it.

I find with the lighter spring drive pressure has a bigger say in the overall scheme, and it keeps things closer to 1:1. While continuing to put more and more load on the primary.
 
I have been talking with Mark (the tuner) there are a few things coming into play here with the ecu control, that we are still discussing, but for now the lighter spring with the regulator can't hurt.
 
dvst8r said:
I have been talking with Mark (the tuner) there are a few things coming into play here with the ecu control, that we are still discussing, but for now the lighter spring with the regulator can't hurt.
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wow! this blew up, lol!


will be interested to hear from mark after you have been talking...

well didnt get to mess with the car yesterday had to work on the daily....but going to try and get the regulator plumbed up today...will try and report back tonight or tomorrow...
 
With the tiny amount of fuel this is getting in comparison to what we will be pushing, it will be uncontrollable, it already is. The VNT on the HP turbo is open 100% and the HP turbo has zero control and it continues to build lots of boost. If we can't tame this, you have zero control over the system.
I don't see why you wouldn't want to be able to control this down to 30psi? You obviously wouldn't want to run only 30PSI at full request but if you can't control the HP charger, it could easily over speed.

Mike, first get those upgraded valve springs in(turn down the OD of the shims and install those under the inner springs). At the same time you are doing that, take dvst8r's advice and run the lightest spring in the gate with regulated boost to the bottom and full boost to the top.
 
Mark will be sending you a new trial tune in the next bit, it will be horrible to drive, but it will answer some questions.

Ideally you use the hp turbo for getting the system going and transition boost (gear changes, part throttle stuff, ect...), So what Mark will have to work out in his tune will be just enough hp boost to get the lp coming up into its sweet spot, and then getting the vanes open and letting the lp take over. The real trick will be to get the wastegate to start opening with any excess boost after the vanes open 100%.

In it's current configuration, how much boost overall when the LP first moves the gauge at ~1psi, and then at 5psi, 10psi?

I'm curious as to the current boost curve. My guess, and it is just a guess at this point, is you will want the vanes to be open 100% about the same time as the LP makes that 7-10psi, and by 15 psi LP have the external wastegate opening.

Once you get that all tuned in, and you are starting to add fuel and make power, I would reconnect your LP internal gate and have it open off the LP signal at ~45psi (the 247 is efficient up to about 4.4pr or ~50psig). This should keep it happy. If everything is working right at that point you should be able to keep it at 45psi out of the LP and 55-60psi overall. But that is a ways down the road yet.
 
well went out and drove it today with the LP gate wide open....car makes ~30psi all the way to redline, the LP gauge reads 0psi...so i can limit it that way...but that means that the HP is still making ~30psi alone, which is surprising if the vanes are 100% open? so not sure how i am ever going to keep this thing from making too much boost...i am fearful that my HP turbo is too small for the size of the engine....

i got the regulator installed and plumbed up...it is currently all the way closed, so i could do that LP gate experiment....if i had more day light i was going to try and play with the regulator, but that ship sailed, and i have to be at the air port at 5am tomorrow, so im done with the car for now...

going to try and get the LP actuator mounted, might try and get Jon's valve springs installed as well as it seems we are getting fairly close...

i will wait to hear from mark, but i now know that i am going to have to get that LP actuator hooked up...might get another regulator so i can fine tune it as well...not really going to be able to work on the car for at least this week, maybe two...
 
The vanes are probably not 100% open when you have the LP gate open, the only way to find out is by logging.
 
JFettig said:
The vanes are probably not 100% open when you have the LP gate open, the only way to find out is by logging.
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that would be great to know...b/c if they are 100% open and i am still making the 30psi, it seems that the pressure ratios are not going to work...
 
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