Leadfoot
Here to learn
- Joined
- May 10, 2006
- Messages
- 372
As to respect the O.P. in another thread who did not want to start a debate in his rules/poll thread, I thought I would start this.
In response to:
There have been ALOT of post regarding how to go to duals, which duals, what spacers, etc. etc., debates on should duals be allowed, one guy asking how to go to SRW from DRW to meet rules (which had no responses by the way), etc. so I thought a discussion as to why the rule started would be good fro the community....
The dual issue has been around A LONG time in the gasser world, and I know guys on here say it's a diesel class, not a gas class, and that's true, but the reason for not allowing duals has nothing to do as to what's in the fuel tank. In some cases it's a Perception = Reality, and the perception is duals = more traction.
And then there are areas where duals ARE an advantage. More tire, more traction (especially on tracks with limited traction). Unlike wheelbase (crewcab, ex-cab, longbed, shortbed, etc.) tires are EASY to change and/or tech. Many clubs use hitch percentage to even out wheelbase, but there is no easy "handicap" for duals vs. non duals (I have seen pulls where there is a weight penalty for running duals). Everyone who pulls competitively does not use "stock tires", so changing tires should be a NON issue (one of the easiest things to change). I know it sucks for guys who run dually's daily as they have to change, but on a dedicated rig it should be no issue. I used to change 4 tires (32 lug nuts) at every pull (twice) as I had dedicated tires for my rig that never saw street, plus change hitches, suspension stops, torsion bars, etc. etc. so changing 16 lug nuts would actually be easy (if you are serious about pulling).
I know it sucks for guys with dually's having to swap tires, but imagine how the regular cab guys feel in a non hanging weight class......as they have no option to change their wheelbase or ballast location (legally).
There is the option of allowing all trucks (dually or non dually) to run six tires as well. The problem then becomes one of legality and safety. Most states (if not all), you cannot run an uncovered tire and some would argue it's a safety issue on the track as well. Are guys using proper techniques and materials to run duals on the rear properly? Added cost as axleshafts take more abuse etc.
It's easier/safer to limit the number of tires than teching "add ons" and could even get into insurance issues as well (as if we don't have enough, for those that actually have had to deal first hand with motorsports insurance coverage).
Your statement about limiting power is true, one way to keep power in check is by limiting weight and tires (as everyone seems set against restrictor plates or other EASY ways to limit power beyond workstock and 2.5 classes). You can only put so much power to the ground given a specific weight and tire restriction (traction and physics). Diesels by nature are heavier than gassers so running 6200 lbs. is not an option, the only other way to limit power transfer to the ground is by limiting the number of tires (4 vs 6) as well as size and width (although most clubs don't specify width restrictions). Limiting tires will limit the power you can put to the track. So you are limiting power by limiting the amount of power you can transfer......although it is azzbackwards, it's what we have to work with considering the current turbo rules way of thinking.
If you notice the gasser classes usually don't change weight (most are 6200)as they go with more power, they lessen the restrictions on tires. Or another way of looking at it, is they restrict tires more in the lower classes to limit how much power can be put to the track in an effort to limit how far people push the HP limits (and in turn make them focus on setup and track reading). HP does no good if you can't hook it.
There are many things we can't control as puller, organizers, promotors, etc. but tires are EASY.
I have seen many trucks that "turn ugly" when running singles on a dually bed, so I understand the issue many guys have when their trucks look silly, stupid, or gay....., but I have also seen it been an advantage (for the true competitor) as they track better (more offset) and seen guys with singles on a dually that looked fricken sweet with spacers, offsets, or super single rims. If it's soley from an asthetic perspective, there are ways to make it look non "goofy". It all depends on how dedicated you are.
Super Single Wheels | Brush Fire Trucks > 1st Attack - Custom Emergency Vehicles, Brush Fire Trucks
Dually conversion - Duramax Diesels Forum
For those that were around pulling before diesels (yes there was a time before competitive diesels in pulling), was there any other reasons this trend "started" that you know of (not hearsay)?
In response to:
There have been ALOT of post regarding how to go to duals, which duals, what spacers, etc. etc., debates on should duals be allowed, one guy asking how to go to SRW from DRW to meet rules (which had no responses by the way), etc. so I thought a discussion as to why the rule started would be good fro the community....
The dual issue has been around A LONG time in the gasser world, and I know guys on here say it's a diesel class, not a gas class, and that's true, but the reason for not allowing duals has nothing to do as to what's in the fuel tank. In some cases it's a Perception = Reality, and the perception is duals = more traction.
And then there are areas where duals ARE an advantage. More tire, more traction (especially on tracks with limited traction). Unlike wheelbase (crewcab, ex-cab, longbed, shortbed, etc.) tires are EASY to change and/or tech. Many clubs use hitch percentage to even out wheelbase, but there is no easy "handicap" for duals vs. non duals (I have seen pulls where there is a weight penalty for running duals). Everyone who pulls competitively does not use "stock tires", so changing tires should be a NON issue (one of the easiest things to change). I know it sucks for guys who run dually's daily as they have to change, but on a dedicated rig it should be no issue. I used to change 4 tires (32 lug nuts) at every pull (twice) as I had dedicated tires for my rig that never saw street, plus change hitches, suspension stops, torsion bars, etc. etc. so changing 16 lug nuts would actually be easy (if you are serious about pulling).
I know it sucks for guys with dually's having to swap tires, but imagine how the regular cab guys feel in a non hanging weight class......as they have no option to change their wheelbase or ballast location (legally).
There is the option of allowing all trucks (dually or non dually) to run six tires as well. The problem then becomes one of legality and safety. Most states (if not all), you cannot run an uncovered tire and some would argue it's a safety issue on the track as well. Are guys using proper techniques and materials to run duals on the rear properly? Added cost as axleshafts take more abuse etc.
It's easier/safer to limit the number of tires than teching "add ons" and could even get into insurance issues as well (as if we don't have enough, for those that actually have had to deal first hand with motorsports insurance coverage).
Your statement about limiting power is true, one way to keep power in check is by limiting weight and tires (as everyone seems set against restrictor plates or other EASY ways to limit power beyond workstock and 2.5 classes). You can only put so much power to the ground given a specific weight and tire restriction (traction and physics). Diesels by nature are heavier than gassers so running 6200 lbs. is not an option, the only other way to limit power transfer to the ground is by limiting the number of tires (4 vs 6) as well as size and width (although most clubs don't specify width restrictions). Limiting tires will limit the power you can put to the track. So you are limiting power by limiting the amount of power you can transfer......although it is azzbackwards, it's what we have to work with considering the current turbo rules way of thinking.
If you notice the gasser classes usually don't change weight (most are 6200)as they go with more power, they lessen the restrictions on tires. Or another way of looking at it, is they restrict tires more in the lower classes to limit how much power can be put to the track in an effort to limit how far people push the HP limits (and in turn make them focus on setup and track reading). HP does no good if you can't hook it.
There are many things we can't control as puller, organizers, promotors, etc. but tires are EASY.
I have seen many trucks that "turn ugly" when running singles on a dually bed, so I understand the issue many guys have when their trucks look silly, stupid, or gay....., but I have also seen it been an advantage (for the true competitor) as they track better (more offset) and seen guys with singles on a dually that looked fricken sweet with spacers, offsets, or super single rims. If it's soley from an asthetic perspective, there are ways to make it look non "goofy". It all depends on how dedicated you are.
Super Single Wheels | Brush Fire Trucks > 1st Attack - Custom Emergency Vehicles, Brush Fire Trucks
Dually conversion - Duramax Diesels Forum
For those that were around pulling before diesels (yes there was a time before competitive diesels in pulling), was there any other reasons this trend "started" that you know of (not hearsay)?
