Father-In-Laws 6.0 Problems

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KelschKid

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My father-in-law has a 2004 with 140-150K miles that's been running rough/weird and I'm hoping you guys can help me.

He's had various issues off and on, and has replaced a few injectors (I don't know which ones) but I'm just going to stick to the most recent issues.

He took it to the shop recently because it would idle very rough and would stumble?/studder?/buckle? at low RPM's, but would smooth out at higher revs.
They said he had a bad injector (again, not sure which one) and that the EGR was also bad. (not sure how they determined the EGR was bad, but they said the computer was showing a bad #? injector so that's why they replaced the injector). After he had these replaced it still ran like crap. It was a dog off the line and had all the issues as before; nothing changed.
He took it back and they said another injector(s) was bad and they'd replace all four on the one side (not sure which side) while they were in there. This seemed to help for a bit (and I mean little bit), but soon it was back to running poorly, though probably not as bad as before.

They've since said that there's some o-ring(s) that has something to do with the head? or headgasket? that goes bad and they might have to replace them/those. Well I've been looking and all I can find about o-rings is the o-ring on /in the injector.

They used reman injectors when they replaced the injectors (if they actually did the work. I'm having my doubts at this point) and I've heard that remans can be a bad thing. Is this true? Please steer me in the right direction guys and don't hesitate to ask questions. I may not be able to answer them but I'll try.

I'm a Cummins guy so I don't really know how to help him with his 6.0 problems.
 
It sounds like if you through enough parts at it, something is going to fix it. Where is the truck at? City and state? And to the reman injectors, that is all they offer for that engine. Even the ones from Ford are classified as reman. We work on a lot of 6.0 at my shop. The list of codes will help a lot. If you can get them.


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I am here: [ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.497641,-96.902655"]Google Maps[/ame]
 
Salt Lake City, Utah. As far as codes......I'll have to ask him about that tomorrow. Now I could be a little screwy on all my details; he never asked me to post on here so I didn't go over all the facts with him, but I do ride to work with him to work everyday and this is how it's gone down to the best of my memory:) I'm just a little reluctant when it comes to trusting mechanics......so, yeah.

I should also mention that he has a coolant leak, (the thing the hose attaches to that goes to the fill tank reservoir thingy was broken off at the radiator so he has a Magyvered situation that isn't the best) and the other day on the way to work it got really low and started to overheat. We filled it back up and the stumble/studder/shudder was gone and it ran a lot better. This "repair" didn't last forever though, and it was soon back to running crappy.

Now don't give me any advice on running low on coolant....I'm just stating this for the record, and I'm wondering why it would make the injector issues worse without enough coolant?
 
don't know if it makes any sense or not, but the ford uses a high pressure oil system to control the injectors on these engines, and part of that system is the oil cooler, which uses coolant to cool the oil which is in turn used to fire the injectors, if you run it low on coolant then the oil doesn't get cooled off at all and that creates problems and wreaks havoc on injector o-rings, injectors in general, so i hope that helps a bit, last oil cooler I saw go out on one of these melted the stand pipe in the oil filter holder and pretty much took out all the injectors, also have your grandpa check the FICM and ICP sensors, these are pretty common things in these motors that can cause them to run like crap but possibly stay running
 
Can you give some more details? Hows it on start up? Codes? Any smoke? Does it always crank right up? I know the HPOP fitting on those go bad all the time, if it gets worse the warmer it gets or has trouble starting hot that's a possibility. ^^ his oil cooler suspiscion sounds pretty good.
 
It usually starts right up, but just sounds and runs rough. There's no check engine light on right now and he doesn't know what codes it threw. It doesn't seem to smoke much as far as I/he knows. He usually starts it with the remote starter so he's not there to see if it smokes on startup, and it runs better the warmer it gets.

Clarifying note: It ran poorly a year? ago so he took it in and they replaced the #4 injector. Then after awhile it started to run crappy again so they replaced the EGR. I thought they did these at the same time but I was mistaken. The EGR repair did nothing so they replaced four more injectors (I'm guessing on the opposite side of the #4 injector). He also replaced the FICM about a year ago with a reman one. When the FICM went out it wouldn't run at all. Is there a problem running a reman FICM?

Does it sound like the last three injectors need to be replaced? Are there other issues that could cause these problems? He's going to take it back to the shop today so they can see what codes (if any) it's throwing.
 
It sounds like he has quite a few issues going on at once. The inop EGR would also lead me back to the turbo and the dogginess off the line for stuck vanes or bad acctuator. Low coolant, oil, and higher oil temps are good ways to kill the injectors in short order on these trucks so get the degas system fixed and working properly before anything else happens. How often does he change the fuel filters and how far down does he run the tank on fuel because you will also kill injectors quickly on a 6.0 by starving them for fuel. Also take the truck to Ford dealer that has a really good diesel tech on staff because not all shops can read all the codes if they don't have the proper scanning software to do it. Or at the very least find a Ford specific diesel performance shop with a good reputation that has diesel techs not parts swappers. We can guess at this forever and he can waste time and money throwing parts at it until the shop get's lucky and fixes it with out the proper info.
 
Earlier you had mentioned they replaced all 4 on one side. Which side? Left (driver)? That's the easy side and I've never really heard of just one side going completely bad. It sounds like your getting taken for a ride. Did they even run a cyl contribution test?

Block off the EGR, an hour of welding. Just get rid of that supid thing.

The FICM's go out all the time (from what I hear) cause of the heat. Pretty sure they're mounted behined the blocks on the firewall. They won't always just shut off completely because of a bad FICM.

Sounds stupid but check the harness too. I'm pretty sure it's internal but if there's a bad connection or something... I know there's a sensor or two that plugs into that harness somewhere too if I'm not mistaken. Then again I'm not a Ford girl...
 
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The truck needs to go somewhere that has the equipment to properly test the truck. A power balance test will tell the health of injectors and FICM voltage can be checked as well. One other possiblity as a cause of poor low end power is a sticking turbo. All of this can be checked with a program like auto enginuity, if the shop it is currently at cannot plug it up then it definately needs to go to someone who can.
 
Earlier you had mentioned they replaced all 4 on one side. Which side? Left (driver)? That's the easy side and I've never really heard of just one side going completely bad. It sounds like your getting taken for a ride. Did they even run a cyl contribution test?
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I don't know which side (opposite side of wherever the #4 injector is I would imagine). They knew that not all of them were bad on that side, they just told him they'd replace them for the cost of the injector (plus their mark-up) while they were in there.

The FICM's go out all the time (from what I hear) cause of the heat. Pretty sure they're mounted behined the blocks on the firewall. They won't always just shut off completely because of a bad FICM.
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The truck wouldn't run at all because of the bad FICM, but it was replaced about a year ago. I just mentioned it to see if a reman FICM could possibly be a problem.

Because I suck at properly conveying my ideas in written words it makes the mechanic sound a lot worse than he probably is, and it also makes it harder to solve my problem because I'm not relating it perfectly. I do appreciate everyones input and I'll pass on to my father-in-law what you have told me. Thanks everyone and send more ideas if ya think of any.
 
well with 6.0's just because it was replaced a year ago, doesn't mean it isn't bad or going bad again, the egr system needs to disappear, being as it's probably not under warranty anymore time for the parts to go, they cause more problems than probably anything else on the 6.0's or at least a good replacement cooler, not factory parts. However like all these guys have said take it to a good shop, not the dealer
 
bobcat67 said:
last oil cooler I saw go out on one of these melted the stand pipe in the oil filter holder
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Melted standpipes and oil filter house... and the engine is still being used?

i6chick said:
Earlier you had mentioned they replaced all 4 on one side. Which side? Left (driver)? That's the easy side and I've never really heard of just one side going completely bad. It sounds like your getting taken for a ride. Did they even run a cyl contribution test?

Block off the EGR, an hour of welding. Just get rid of that supid thing.

The FICM's go out all the time (from what I hear) cause of the heat. Pretty sure they're mounted behined the blocks on the firewall. They won't always just shut off completely because of a bad FICM.

Sounds stupid but check the harness too. I'm pretty sure it's internal but if there's a bad connection or something... I know there's a sensor or two that plugs into that harness somewhere too if I'm not mistaken. Then again I'm not a Ford girl...
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The FICM is right behind the degas bottle on the drivers side valve cover.

OP, get a multimeter and do this:

http://swampsdiesel.com/content/faq/ficm.htm

Just because the part is under a year old doesnt mean it is working properly. Also, go to a different dealer/shop.
 
For the hose barb that was broken off of the radiator, just tap threads in it and screw a brass fitting into it with some sort of sealer on the threads. That will fix that. On the rough running, how rough? Short trips? Sounds sort of like the FICM but if short trips where it can't get up to operating temps.(ie 165deg.) and combined with thicker oil(ie 15w40) it will run sluggish and lack of power until the oil gets warm. If running rougher than that, I would have a cylinder contribution test ran on it before throwing injectors at it randomly.
 
He actually told me after I posted this thread that he was going to do a threaded brass piece. Great minds must think alike :)

It runs worse before it warms up, but it's still stumbles once it is warm at low RPM's. He hasn't taken it to a shop yet, but I've let him know all the advice I've gotten.

What oil should he be running? i.e. what weight for the 6.0's?
 
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KelschKid said:
Ok......what oil that's cheap? My father-in-law isn't known for perfect maintenance ;)
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Cheap oil and non perfect maintenance= really expensive with a 6.0. I can usually find the Valvoline Extreme Blue 15w-40 Dino oil for $9.99/gallon at my local NAPA.
 
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