Front sway bar - worth the weight?

bgreen776

bgreen776

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In the never ending analysis of all things race related, I have come to question the usefulness of my front swaybar in a 1/4 mile drag race. I have also been thinking about installing one in the rear as well. My thoughts are that I should keep the front one and add one to the rear.

Any thoughts on the matter?
 
I know bruce block doesnt run one when hes at the track. I have thought about loosing mine as well but drive alot on the street. I will have to try it soon
 
jlibert said:
No sway bar in front.
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You aren't running a front sway bar? 2 or 4wd. Will you elaborate a bit?

My thoughts are that it can only help maintain traction in a 4wd, but that benefit might be so small that the weight savings out weigh it.
 
Hes a 4 door short bed 4wd. Same as mine which is what sparked my interest
 
In drag racing, running one in the rear makes more sense than the front. You can set some lateral preload. The front, not so much. I would not take it off if you're going on the street though because the CG on a diesel in a dodge is kinda high for going around turn or getting on freeway ramps!

Just my two cents!
 
One of the things that got me thinking about removing the front sway bar is the desire to run one on the back. I hope to have some time to drive the truck on the street before opening day so I should be able to get a good idea about the handling before I wick her up to 130 mph. :)
 
CorneliusRox said:
I would not take it off if you're going on the street though because the CG on a diesel in a dodge is kinda high for going around turn or getting on freeway ramps!
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I drove around for over a year with no links, just had the bar tied up, and could hardly tell a difference.
Just don't go thinking your Ken Block in your 3/4 ton truck LOL
 
okie18 said:
I drove around for over a year with no links, just had the bar tied up, and could hardly tell a difference.
Just don't go thinking your Ken Block in your 3/4 ton truck LOL
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Ha ha I have as well, but I was on much stiffer front coils so I think that's what saved me. When I put them back in (made some with heims so I could adjust them), I realized how sloppy it had been. It definitely feels like a boat around turns without!
 
Haha. Can't remember if I was still on the stock coils or Thuren's half inch coils back then.
 
bgreen776 said:
You aren't running a front sway bar? 2 or 4wd. Will you elaborate a bit?

My thoughts are that it can only help maintain traction in a 4wd, but that benefit might be so small that the weight savings out weigh it.
Click to expand...

I'm not running anything right now. My truck is in pieces. But I have seen positive results in other trucks from removing it. I drove on the street without one, and it was a little sloppy in turns, but no big deal.
 
Have you ever experienced high speed death wobble while not running your sway bar?


Bruce Block and I both have, he was not running his sway bar and was running long arms, and I was runnin extended short arms but I did have slightly worn tie rod ends.

I've since installed 08.5 linkage - reduced the wobble to a point I could finish the season
Installed the 52106846AE gearbox - results yet to be seen
Shortened my front control arms - results yet to be seen
Installed new sway bar links - results yet to be seen
 
bgreen776 said:
Have you ever experienced high speed death wobble while not running your sway bar?


Bruce Block and I both have, he was not running his sway bar and was running long arms, and I was runnin extended short arms but I did have slightly worn tie rod ends.

I've since installed 08.5 linkage - reduced the wobble to a point I could finish the season
Installed the 52106846AE gearbox - results yet to be seen
Shortened my front control arms - results yet to be seen
Installed new sway bar links - results yet to be seen
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I had a stock inverted y front setup, stock control arms, stiffer springs, some cheap-ish shocks, and a moog track bar, and I didn't get any death wobble. The only time I got it with that setup is when I was hauling 10k about 550 miles and I was driving through Detroit and hit a good pot hole. I pulled over and saw that my track bar was wearing out again at the frame, so I lowered my tire pressure from 50psi to 35psi and that saved me for the rest of that trip. Then upgraded my track bat setup when I got back. That was at about 250k I'd have to imagine on the stock control arms and gear box (I think the second inverted y setup though).
 
I took the sway bar off mainly to save weight. For street driving she rolls a little on the corners and I probably woundn't do it on a street truck. As far as traction goes I am not sure if it helps or hurts . I was talking to a guy last fall about the death wobble isue and he said maybe having the sway bar off might contribute to it. The truck only does it when I let off at over 130 mph . I recently made some new control arms for it , kind of my own design They are stock length right now but that could change . I have also changed the track bar bushing to solid ones to tighten that up too. I havn't had a chance to run the truck yet with the new arms so I still have to see how it all works out.
 
Toolman said:
I took the sway bar off mainly to save weight. For street driving she rolls a little on the corners and I probably woundn't do it on a street truck. As far as traction goes I am not sure if it helps or hurts . I was talking to a guy last fall about the death wobble isue and he said maybe having the sway bar off might contribute to it. The truck only does it when I let off at over 130 mph . I recently made some new control arms for it , kind of my own design They are stock length right now but that could change . I have also changed the track bar bushing to solid ones to tighten that up too. I havn't had a chance to run the truck yet with the new arms so I still have to see how it all works out.
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I think the track bar is probably most of your issue. Death wobble comes from lateral movement or the axle, and the track bar is the only thing controlling lateral movement of the axle. Also if you add a little bit of toe in, that helps combat it, so if you're tried lining up to perfectly straight, move it back to factory toe in or slightly more. I really don't think you'd find any change at the strip from the added friction of your tires fighting each other, since it's damn near nothing.
 
CorneliusRox said:
I think the track bar is probably most of your issue. Death wobble comes from lateral movement or the axle, and the track bar is the only thing controlling lateral movement of the axle. Also if you add a little bit of toe in, that helps combat it, so if you're tried lining up to perfectly straight, move it back to factory toe in or slightly more. I really don't think you'd find any change at the strip from the added friction of your tires fighting each other, since it's damn near nothing.
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We have moved the toe in all over the place it really doesn't make that much difference. The weird thing is it wont do it till I run 130 plus mph and when I let off the throttle. What I think is going on is the front axle is shifting from side to side. So when I let off the throttle the torque on the axle shifts the other way. Because I am running M and H cheater slicks they are a wrinkle wall tire with basically no sidewall. Once the axle starts to shift it creates like a harmonic in the slicks and it wont stop till you get slowed down. Scary stuff ! So I am trying to take as much slop out of the front axle as I can in hopes it will stop it. I have talked to other people that say getting the camber set right can also make a big difference too.
 
Toolman said:
We have moved the toe in all over the place it really doesn't make that much difference. The weird thing is it wont do it till I run 130 plus mph and when I let off the throttle. What I think is going on is the front axle is shifting from side to side. So when I let off the throttle the torque on the axle shifts the other way. Because I am running M and H cheater slicks they are a wrinkle wall tire with basically no sidewall. Once the axle starts to shift it creates like a harmonic in the slicks and it wont stop till you get slowed down. Scary stuff ! So I am trying to take as much slop out of the front axle as I can in hopes it will stop it. I have talked to other people that say getting the camber set right can also make a big difference too.
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I've played around with camber a bunch and never had it change death wobble much, but maybe that's just my experience.

Another good trick is to toss a shock/steering stabilizer between the drag link and the track bar. It's an old Jeep off road trick (they death wobble really bad when lifted on coils and no other geometry updated). It basically eats up a lot of the force when your're getting the lateral (side to side) play because of slack and also helps the bouncing of the steering box (frame deflection).

Your tire theory makes sense though. Have you played around with adding a couple psi to them? I suppose safety comes second to time though. lol
 
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