Hard Start.... No... not your normal problem :(

Huntingman27062

Huntingman27062

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Nov 11, 2009
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261
still got a hard stat problem... here is what i have done so far...

batteries test good
Jeff Garmon tested injectors... 3 SS new ones from dodge 30k ago and 3 older ones tested just as good as new ones...
JUST installed 6 new injector tubes and O rings
new rebuilt industrial injection CP3
capped fuel relief valve
swapped rail pressure sensor out
dodges in tank pump conversion still pushing 9ish PSI (Gauged)
reflashed computer

things ive tried already that things above have changed again....
changed injector tube o rings
tried torquing injector tubes to spec with motor warm
replaced FCA (then CP3 failed of course.. killed brand new FCA)

i just dont know what else to do... or to try... HELP PLEASE!!!
 
Once it starts any smoke? Do you suspect a fuel leak? Check the crank position sensor? Any codes? Can you borrow someones ECU??
 
no abnormal smoke anyway... ive been searching for a fuel leak but no luck... everything is dry... no codes although sometimes the engine light will flash so quick that you cant even read it... but leaves no code... kinda weird... dont think its related... what am i checking on the crank position sensor? this would throw my timing off wouldnt it? and it would be rattling like crazy? popping a code if it was bad... no buddies with a matching truck to swap ECM's... but everything seemed to be working right when they reflashed it...
 
explain exactly what happens when you're having the issue. How long do you have to crank before it starts, etc?
 
Hmm the CP-3 is a self priming pump so as long as it can get fuel that is not the problem. How about compression? Does it start real quick with starting fluid? Have you adjusted the valves yet? Check the pickup wheel for the crank sensor loose, broken toothe or??
 
jlibert said:
explain exactly what happens when you're having the issue. How long do you have to crank before it starts, etc?
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generally takes about 8 turn overs before start... but sometimes 3 or 4 and sometimes 10 to 12... but mostly 8 turn overs... then starts and runs fine...
 
your hpop is on it way out!!!!

maybe the pressure relief valve is not in best of shape
 
dangerous06 said:
Hmm the CP-3 is a self priming pump so as long as it can get fuel that is not the problem. How about compression? Does it start real quick with starting fluid? Have you adjusted the valves yet? Check the pickup wheel for the crank sensor loose, broken toothe or??
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not sure how to check compression on this motor... hhmm... it seems to spin faster when starting with starting fluid... but takes the same amount of spin over "i think" ... ive never adjusted the valves... never been done to my knowledge... i did the tone ring mod at one point... but i think the problem was here before i did it (along time ago) and have since stuck it back to stock until i figure this out... ill double check it tomorrow for damage...
 
The engine won't start till the ecm gets a proper signal fron the crank sensor so I would look there! It won't throw a code it will just keep turning till it finds TDC
 
Good luck! Check the gap on the sensor and the ring for loosness also the plug in on the sensor and harness for any wear spots mangled wires ETC!
Keep us posted I love a good challenge!
 
Actually, the ECM relys on input from the cam sensor for engine start, then uses it to validate crank sensor input while the engine is running.

Cam sensor (aka EPS & CMP) reads engine position.
Crank sensor (aka ESS & CKP) reads engine speed.

There's about 10 pages of cam sensor pin-out verification in the FSM for reference.

"Hard start" is a CR thing... there've been flashes for it.
Sounds like due diligence has been done to eliminate a high-pressure fuel leak (4 bolts remove the intake horn + 1/2 sec of ether = instant start).

Since the engine runs fine after starting, many potential problems can be eliminated.
 
XLR8R said:
Actually, the ECM relys on input from the cam sensor for engine start, then uses it to validate crank sensor input while the engine is running.

Cam sensor (aka EPS & CMP) reads engine position.
Crank sensor (aka ESS & CKP) reads engine speed.

There's about 10 pages of cam sensor pin-out verification in the FSM for reference.

"Hard start" is a CR thing... there've been flashes for it.
Sounds like due diligence has been done to eliminate a high-pressure fuel leak (4 bolts remove the intake horn + 1/2 sec of ether = instant start).

Since the engine runs fine after starting, many potential problems can be eliminated.
Click to expand...


so i should also shoot out the cam sensor... once i find it.. lol... and pull the horn and hit it with ether? see if it startes right up?
 
so i went and pulled the dodge up on the concrete pad to start looking... after i did i noticed abunch of "oil" in the grass?? crawled under there and got to looking and there actually fuel all under neith the truck now... this is a new problem... well at least it hasnt been leaking this much anyways... looked up through the bottom and its wet all the way to the back of the head... stuck my hand back there while its running and the relief line is spraying everywhere... what the best way to get to this joker? i wonder if its been leaking "alittle" as in not enough to notice and its been sucking in air causing my hard start? now its just everywhere... should i pull the line completely and make sure its not damaged or just try and tightin it? as you all know its not easy and you cant even see it... i havent even made it to the crank sensor yet... ive got a vibe coming from something at a low speed and not on the gas... think it may be the pass side axle joint since i just replaced the drivers side last week... was gonna jack it up and spin it...
 
I know that the fitting that goes into the back of the head is a check valve maybe that is your problem.
 
Spurrinit said:
I know that the fitting that goes into the back of the head is a check valve maybe that is your problem.
Click to expand...

its just a banjo bolt? goes through a line like on the fuel filter bowl... i tightened it up and got like a half a turn out of it... go under the truck on the pass side and could see it with a flashflight... no more leaking... but still 8 cranks to start... just another frickin problem i guess...

the pass side axle joint looks fine as i thought it did.... but got play in the front driveshaft... so guess thats next...

so if the tone ring got up against the crank position sensor just a wee bit... would it cause a hard start? cause theres a mark where it looks like it did.. like if you took a knife and cut the plastic on a 4wheeler or plastic bumper or something...
 
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