Has anyone ever heard or seen cam journal freeze plug come out of back of block?

O

oldsmokey97

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
744
Just as the title states.
Has anyone ever seen or heard of the freeze plug in the back of the block for the cam journal falling out. Reason asking is because i have a HORRIBLE oil leak coming out from between the block and the adapter plate for the bell housing. There is a LARGE amount of oil coming from right at the back of the cam between the two.
That is the only thing it that area that has anything to do with oil. So it has to be it. But.... why did it come out?
And... does anyone have closeup pics of the freeze plug and/or size of plug so that i can try to find a new one. I am assuming it is rather large (3inch or so)
Thanks in advance.

Lance
 
If the cam is walking back and forth in the block it can push it out. May want to pull the front cover and look at the cam retainer.
 
i already decided that im going to pull the front cover also.
What would make the cam walk backwards. The retainer is only there to keep it from coming foreward i thought.
Lance
 
Retainer keeps the gear from coming forward but lifter rotation and forces on the cam gear from the injection pump push the cam back when the gear moves forward. Rpm and higher injection timing do wonders for gear movement.
 
my cam gear had started coming off of cam and knock the cam retainer out. thougth i had rear seal problem. had to take transmission out and transmission adapter off on back of adapter is about a 2" hole that lines up with cam retainer i put a washer in this hole and made it flush with adapter so cam retainer could not move backwards.
 
bud300ft said:
my cam gear had started coming off of cam and knock the cam retainer out. thougth i had rear seal problem. had to take transmission out and transmission adapter off on back of adapter is about a 2" hole that lines up with cam retainer i put a washer in this hole and made it flush with adapter so cam retainer could not move backwards.
Click to expand...

When you talk about the cam retainer... i assume you are talking about the freeze plug i am talking about and not a the retainer.
Also.... i understand your theory of putting a washer in the recess of the adapter plate to hold the freeze plug in but wouldnt that vibrate over time and cause in to rub a hole in the plug???
Maybe a thick piece of hard rubber (maybe 1/4-1/2 inch thick) could be used. These are just guesses because i wont have time to pull it apart untill saturday to see exactly how much clearance there is.
I have a buddy of mine that has his apart and he said that there IS a recess in the adapter plate where the freeze plug is... soo.... some kind of spacer to hold it in there would theoretically work but i would like to use something softer to eliminate any rubbing/damage due to vibrations.

Lance
 
bud300ft was the only one I had heard about pushing the back plug out until I read this thread. I would look at your retainer first.
 
seen it many times, still dont know why Cummins thought it was a good idea to use a cup plug in that particular area that see's oil pressure all the time, you must replace both the washer and the large thin oring that is behind the cup plug, do not try and reuse the old cup plug, you are just asking for trouble down the road if you can even get it to work. make sure that you get all of the old oring out of the small groove in the block, i have seen pieces left behind before, and well you know what happens. the cup plug part # is 3900687, and the part # for the oring that goes behind the cup plug is 3926047. some tips for the install, make sure eveything is nice and clean around the edge of the block where the cup plug seals against, use two hammers to install the plug, a ball peen round end against the plug, and then use a BFH to smack the ball peen, trust me it takes a good smack to get the plug firmly in place, but dont over do it!, the more you hit it after a certian point, the less it will seal. after that, spray the oustide around the plug with some contact cleaner/brake cleaner, just make sure there no oil residue, smear some ultra grey rtv around the outside perimeter edge of the cup plug where it is seated against the block. you dont need to whole lot of rtv, all this does is provide a better seal/barrier just incase the plug weeps a little bit of oil, which they can do even if installed properly. hoep this info helps! good luck with the repair!

Wes
 
wdimig said:
seen it many times, still dont know why Cummins thought it was a good idea to use a cup plug in that particular area that see's oil pressure all the time, you must replace both the washer and the large thin oring that is behind the cup plug, do not try and reuse the old cup plug, you are just asking for trouble down the road if you can even get it to work. make sure that you get all of the old oring out of the small groove in the block, i have seen pieces left behind before, and well you know what happens. the cup plug part # is 3900687, and the part # for the oring that goes behind the cup plug is 3926047. some tips for the install, make sure eveything is nice and clean around the edge of the block where the cup plug seals against, use two hammers to install the plug, a ball peen round end against the plug, and then use a BFH to smack the ball peen, trust me it takes a good smack to get the plug firmly in place, but dont over do it!, the more you hit it after a certian point, the less it will seal. after that, spray the oustide around the plug with some contact cleaner/brake cleaner, just make sure there no oil residue, smear some ultra grey rtv around the outside perimeter edge of the cup plug where it is seated against the block. you dont need to whole lot of rtv, all this does is provide a better seal/barrier just incase the plug weeps a little bit of oil, which they can do even if installed properly. hoep this info helps! good luck with the repair!

Wes
Click to expand...
Is there any place that Lance can get them parts before Sat? Or is Cummins the only place?
 
i think the cup plug is not just a generic plug, it has special cut edge to help seal against the block. i may be wrong, if someonle else knows any different please help with detail on size and what not. i know i have 2 plugs in my tool box at work, ill try and take some pics, and size measurements tomorrow, and post up for you guys. i know that he will not find a oring that will work, it is about the same diamiter as the cup plug, but is very thin in actual thickness, like less than a milimeter. i know for sure that the oring is special, and if he doesent replace that oring, it will leak again. wish i had better news...

Wes
 
Ok.. I'll call Lance and relay the bad news.. He wanted to pull it apart and go back together with it on Sat.. Hmmm Thanks Wdimig
 
just searched the part number given above for the o-ring and it was non-existent.
I did in fact find the plug.
But... I will be calling the cummins place in houston tomorrow ASAP in the morning and see if they have the plug and give them the part number that was given for the o-ring. Either way.... they should know about any kind of o-ring that would be back there.

Thanks. Hopefully i will have some pics posted sometime saturday if i can get a hold of a plug.

Lance
 
SuperSonic said:
Could also be leaking from the rear oil galley plug.
Click to expand...


This was another thought of mine. But just thinking that if it was the actual galley plug.....it would be quite a bit more oil that what it is now.
Just my thinking but the cam plug does not have DIRECT oil pressure acting on it. But... the galley plug does. So... i am still sticking to my assumtion as being the cam plug rather than galley plug by the amount of oil coming.
If it was galley plug.... there would be oil GUSHING out instead of a slight run.

But... we will see come saturday morn. Will let yall know with some pics hopefully.

Lance
 
My brothers cam gear walked off and caused it to push the rear plug out.After seeing that I got a retainer for mine and my motor had 12k on it so I figured better safe than sorry. I pulled my cover off and my cam gear had already started to walk. If your gear did walk check your cam out, my brothers cam had a few screwed up lobes from walking
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top