Leaking injector, intermediate disk?

Cam73

Cam73

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Sep 15, 2007
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I installed a new set of 5X014 Sacs last weekend. Fuel was seeping through the threads of the hold down nut for the #3 cylinder. I removed it and did a 2nd check on the exterior of the injector body and injector bore. Everything looked good so I re-installed only to have the same problem.

Aside from the frustration of spending $$ for the product to show up with roughed up parts in it, the bigger issue is I need the truck to get to work tomorrow (more so the base stickers on the windshield..)

Here is a picture of the nozzle side of intermediate disk out of the new injector. I don't see a full leak path from the feed passage hole but it is a sizable ding. Haven't had a chance to look at it under a 5x yet.

Can I safely swap an intermediate disk out of a core injector without a pop off pressure issue?

Thanks
 

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Yes you can swap the intermediate disc but you'll want to pop test it to be sure pop pressure hasn't been changed by the disc swap.
 
It looks cracked, some electronic board cleaner will make it more visible. I would pop test it but if your in a pinch you will be ok to swap them and run it.
 
Thanks guys. I've heard drain-o works well to etch and I may have some of that laying around. Not that it really matters but the alignment pin protrusion is different side to side. Just looks real hack for an important fuel system component..

No build sheet was supplied with the injectors :bs: so pop pressure is a bit of a mystery. The potential difference between the compression pin counter bore in the plate and where the shim rides in the injector body could cause an issue but I don't have the technology to measure that at home.
 
Everything worked out fine. No leaks despite crushing the sealing washer and return line horseshoes several times.
Smooth idle, less buck than the 370s they replaced and lots of fuel. The AFC will need some attention now.
 
Who's injectors did you go with? And did this change you back to 145deg spray?
 
Timebomb said:
It looks cracked, some electronic board cleaner will make it more visible. I would pop test it but if your in a pinch you will be ok to swap them and run it.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing but wasn't sure if it was my phone screen. It does appear to be cracked.
 
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They were supposed to have some additional down angle to help out with the thick head gasket and timing. It was my belief that the nozzles started life at 145*but couldn't tell you for certain.

Upon actually getting to drive the truck and get under the turbo a few times there is a sort of chugging sound in the low/mid range (with lots of smoke). I set the afc foot all the way aft and tightened the star wheel several clicks hoping a reduction in fuel would cure the problem. No real luck, still sounds off and slow on the bottom end.

Not sure what to make of it.
 
Can anyone comment on drive-ability expectations of 20* timing, no plate, 5x14s and a 66/74 and a 5 speed.

With the 370s and not a whole lot of star wheel tension I could get away with out any excessive smoke just lugging around and driving easy.

With the new sticks, any sort of load between 1500-2000 and it is nothing but smoke. Sounds broken up too. Still no plate but like I said in the prior post, the afc foot is all the way aft and it shouldn't start moving till it sees some boost. The truck is literally on its knees until 2,200 plus then it gets it.

I'm going to take it for a drive with the afc unhooked to rule out star wheel setting.
 
Cam73 said:
Can anyone comment on drive-ability expectations of 20* timing, no plate, 5x14s and a 66/74 and a 5 speed.

With the 370s and not a whole lot of star wheel tension I could get away with out any excessive smoke just lugging around and driving easy.

With the new sticks, any sort of load between 1500-2000 and it is nothing but smoke. Sounds broken up too. Still no plate but like I said in the prior post, the afc foot is all the way aft and it shouldn't start moving till it sees some boost. The truck is literally on its knees until 2,200 plus then it gets it.

I'm going to take it for a drive with the afc unhooked to rule out star wheel setting.
Click to expand...


1. Put your plate back in, will help with drive-ability
2. What AR size on the turbo?
3. Afc issues

Seems like you just need a little tuning work is all, I know a guy running a very similar set-up, his is a little smokey on low rpm too though...

Sent from phone
 
Thanks.

Its a 14cm wg housing. Turbo is a total turd till 2000+ but was tolerable prior to the new injectors.

Couldn't find the #100 plate in my spare parts box, must have loaned it out. I'll see if I can get my hands on a fuel plate soon.

I tried moving the afc housing all the way aft but it absolutely destroyed any responsiveness the engine had. In fact I don't know if something was wrong but the pedal got stiff like the gov arm was binding up (although I didn't think it would be felt in the pedal). It went away when the housing was moved back forward.
 
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If you don't mash the pedal, you can feel where it contacts the AFC or plate, and when it over rides the spring tension of the internal components. You'll have some easy travel, a stiff spot, and more easy travel in the pedal. The stiff spot is when you are overcoming the springs inside. Any further pedal travel does not equal more throttle. Same thing if you step on the throttle with the truck off.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I knew there was some sort of spring dampening on the rack, just never felt resistance like that before. Been a long time since I've tried to do any kind of tuning. The AFC foot barrel has been cut and the diaphragm has the washer mod so now to get it set right.
 
No real progress trying to get the low end to clean up today.

Went and tested on a few grades at lower speeds which is where the truck really struggles (too fast for 2nd gear but too slow for 3rd gear speed). The point where the gov arm runs into the afc foot is pretty obvious. Once against the foot things get smokey and stay smokey. The turbo makes little effort to spool and its a real steady cloud.

Going to work on the star wheel tomorrow and see if more initial fuel will wake the turbo up and get things moving rather than doing very little for a lengthier time.
Tired of the smoke. I bet I'm the first person on earth who has ever wanted their 370s back :doh:
 
So the #3 injector has been in/out 3 times now. Thinking the rough sounding mid range could be attributed to the thin sealing washer being used 3 times I wanted to swap a new one in to potentially eliminate the problem.

Only thing is I ran out of washers that thin. All injector were removed and reinstalled to the same cylinder with new thicker washers under them. #4 injector is now leaking from the hold down threads.

All injector bores were wiped down and vacuumed. New washers were installed with a little petroleum jelly to hold the washer in place.

What gives? :bang I was under the impression the copper washer is only to seal out combustion pressure.
Thanks
 
The washer that goes in the head does only seal combustion gasses. Make sure you're not leaking from the return line. It can run down the injector and look like it is coming up from the retaining nut. I battled this about a month ago, everything seemed to keep leaking. I pulled all the injectors, and annealed the washers and the banjo bolt washers. A BIC lighter will get them bright red, but a soldering torch makes it much easier. Drop it into a cup of water, it'll help knock the carbon off the washer from heating it. Quenching isn't necessary, but makes cleaning much easier. File/sand to smooth out any high spots.
 
I ran in to that issue today seems to be the banjos that are leaking and covering everthing in fuel. i thought it was the hold downs myself. How many of you change copper everytime you pull injectors? i know my number one injector is not sealing in the bore.
 
I like to change them each time, but Cummins charges an arm and a leg for them, and I don't always have time to wait for mail order. Clean them up, then anneal them. They'll work just fine.
 
Tate said:
The washer that goes in the head does only seal combustion gasses. Make sure you're not leaking from the return line. It can run down the injector and look like it is coming up from the retaining nut. I battled this about a month ago, everything seemed to keep leaking. I pulled all the injectors, and annealed the washers and the banjo bolt washers. A BIC lighter will get them bright red, but a soldering torch makes it much easier. Drop it into a cup of water, it'll help knock the carbon off the washer from heating it. Quenching isn't necessary, but makes cleaning much easier. File/sand to smooth out any high spots.
Click to expand...

Basically all you do is heat them up as press them flat?
 
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