Measuring devices

Highwayman

Highwayman

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Oct 12, 2014
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Who here actually owns tools to measure things with, besides a ruler, plastigage, and a tape measure?

For a hobby guy, is it worth it?
Looking at lots of piston stuff has me really geeked out on measuring devices for whatever reason.
Looking at dial bore gauges/inside mics, outside mics, and alignment gauges.

On a side note, this seems like another thing on my list of unhealthy obsessions. I think if I won the lottery, I would have a house full of vintage fishing tackle, signs, and tools of all sorts from power hammers to micrometers.
 
I have a digital micrometer and want to build a tram gauge for fixing frames, which is pretty easy.
 
I've never had anything besides some plain Jane calipers. Want to double check PTW and clearances on my bushings, especially wrist pins.
 
I have a hobo freight caliper, I'm usually looking for tenths. I really wanted a nice mititoyo but there's a better chance of me losing it before I need to accurately measure in the ten thousanths.

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Look on craigslist for a retired tool and die maker selling off his tools. Usually the older stuff is better anyways. Also check out longisland for information on different brands out there.
 
Starrett makes great calipers. Brown and Sharp are good ones too, especially their mic's.
 
chevota84 said:
I have a hobo freight caliper, I'm usually looking for tenths. I really wanted a nice mititoyo but there's a better chance of me losing it before I need to accurately measure in the ten thousanths.

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Calipers are important! But I'm also cheap when it comes to that. I get the one's from Fastenal (Titan I believe) and they're like $100. Decently accurate.
 
CorneliusRox said:
Calipers are important! But I'm also cheap when it comes to that. I get the one's from Fastenal (Titan I believe) and they're like $100. Decently accurate.
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It seems like the Guangzhou Charlie calipers are OK down to measurements I'll never use, I watched a lot of videos of guys checking them against gauge blocks before I talked myself out of the $300 ones. I'm sure I'll lose them or drop a hammer on them inside of a year or so anyway.

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How much money do you have that you don't like? Lol. I work in tool and die and there's a huge difference in cheap measuring tools and quality made. That said there's also a big price gap.

My opinion is that for a hobby guy, the stuff you can buy from Summit is just fine. The chances you need to read below .001 with repeatability are very slim. You can get everything you need to check all of your engine specs for less than $400.
Or you can buy the $1200 long reach Sunnen dial bore and worry yourself to death with .0003 runout

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It doesn't matter how accurate a tool is if you don't know how to use them. It is like the debate on how "accurate" a gun is. You are look for consistency as well as accuracy. The difference I have noticed between the REAL cheap calipers and anything near the $100 range and above is consistency. I constantly bring my calipers back to zero after I measure to make sure it still reads zero. The cheapo ones rarely read zero. usually + or - a .001" or two. The cheapo ones typically flex quite a lot as well. Lightly touching the thumb wheel can differ the measurement several .001"

I am all for saving a buck but if you are going to be doing things that matter with the tools then find a pawn shop. I've yet to walk into one where they didn't have a Mitutoyo caliper in the building. Get online and educate yourself on what the knockoff mitutoyo calipers look like before you go, though. I keep the cheapo sets around as well just for some beater calipers. It is nice to have a $20 pair around that I can keep in the tool box.
 
I used to work in a Metrology lab as a contractor for the US Army where we had a couple CMM tables accurate to 1-2 microns. Everything we had was Brown & Sharp and Starrett. We always had to check and double check against a certified calibrated gauge block. I'm sure you aren't looking for anything like this for results. I use a cheapo caliper for anything +/- .1mm and I have a little nice set that stays in the case in the drawer until I need to use for anything +/-.001.
 
I'm a fan of Mitutoyo tools. We use those, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, some Moore and Wright (old stuff). The feel of the Mitutoyo is the best personally. Starrett I find usually has a heavy feel to it. Which is fine if you want set the mic and then check the part. But there's times you're measuring a gap between a turbine rotor and a pedestal at the end of your reach with your neck bent 90 degrees sideways that a light feel makes the job 10x easier.

I cruise kijiji (like craigslist, but way better) for tools a fair bit. Most of the stuff I have came from a millwright that was retiring and selling it all off. I bought a set of 0-6" mics for about 30% of new, and only one mic has been used. All the standards were still bagged and had the waxy-plastic still on them.

Make sure you check the mics on the standards when buying. I got burned on a 0-6 mic with interchangable anvils. The body has a bit of a tweak in it and will measure .002 different depending on where you measure on the anvil. Becomes real apparent when checking inside mics.
 
I have some Mitutoyo stuff and fowler. Both are nice,both get the job done. A cheap set of digital fowler calipers are my go to every single time
 
Tate said:
I'm a fan of Mitutoyo tools. We use those, Starrett, Brown and Sharpe, some Moore and Wright (old stuff). The feel of the Mitutoyo is the best personally. Starrett I find usually has a heavy feel to it. Which is fine if you want set the mic and then check the part. But there's times you're measuring a gap between a turbine rotor and a pedestal at the end of your reach with your neck bent 90 degrees sideways that a light feel makes the job 10x easier.

I cruise kijiji (like craigslist, but way better) for tools a fair bit. Most of the stuff I have came from a millwright that was retiring and selling it all off. I bought a set of 0-6" mics for about 30% of new, and only one mic has been used. All the standards were still bagged and had the waxy-plastic still on them.

Make sure you check the mics on the standards when buying. I got burned on a 0-6 mic with interchangable anvils. The body has a bit of a tweak in it and will measure .002 different depending on where you measure on the anvil. Becomes real apparent when checking inside mics.
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Sounds like you've checked some fun oil bores a time or two??
 
I am a fan of Mitutoyo as well. I was taught measuring with a set of 12" Mitutoyo calipers, so they feel the best and it's what I'm used to. Strarrett is just as nice in my opinion. Their quality and feel when you slide them together are tight. I keep a pair of 6" Mit's in the truck at all times.

For an everyday set of calipers you would bang up, Fowler and Insize are just what you need. Both are decent quality with a lower price tag. When I worked in a machine shop, that's what we supplied the new guy with. And for what you're going to be measuring, they will do more than enough.

I picked up most of my measuring tools from other employees needing quick cash. All Mitutoyo brand. Some needed repairing so I would take them to a micrometer and indicator repair facility in Houston. I try to keep my calipers certified every two years.

Also, I would personally invest in snap gauges instead of ID micrometers. That's just me.
 
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Red Sleeper said:
Also, I would personally invest in snap gauges instead of ID micrometers. That's just me.
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Different jobs, different tools. For measuring cylinder bores and main bearing bores that you can get your hand to, inside mic every time. If you can't get your hand in there with the mic, like cam journal bores, then go to snap gauges. With an inside mic, you can feel if you are heavy or light, and have a general trust in the measurement you just took. Snap gauges don't give you that feel, and inevitably have to remeasure to confirm your first number.
 
Tate said:
Different jobs, different tools. For measuring cylinder bores and main bearing bores that you can get your hand to, inside mic every time. If you can't get your hand in there with the mic, like cam journal bores, then go to snap gauges. With an inside mic, you can feel if you are heavy or light, and have a general trust in the measurement you just took. Snap gauges don't give you that feel, and inevitably have to remeasure to confirm your first number.
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I do agree with your statement of different jobs, different tools.

So you wouldn't use a dial bore gauge to measure cylinder bores?
If I have any sort of decent length straight bore, I am grabbing the dial bore gauge.
I see your point about ID mics and a one time confirmation on the measurement. I usually over measure anyways.
 
Red Sleeper said:
I do agree with your statement of different jobs, different tools.

So you wouldn't use a dial bore gauge to measure cylinder bores?
If I have any sort of decent length straight bore, I am grabbing the dial bore gauge.
I see your point about ID mics and a one time confirmation on the measurement. I usually over measure anyways.
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I always double check measurements, but I'm much more confident with the inside mic vs. snap gauges.

If I were working on straight bores all day, a bore gauge would likely be used. But most of the long straight bores we measure have gaps between the replaceable sleeves for steam leak off (stop or control valves in large steam turbines) that the spring action of the bore gauge likes to hook on. Likewise, were are often limited of the depth we'd be able to measure to due not being able to see the dial any more. Other jobs, like measuring couple bolt holes (2-2.5" diameter) using an inside mic is too cumbersome, and a snap gauge isn't accurate enough. A bore gauge would be good there. One plant I work at has a real nice Mitutoyo digital electronic inside mic. Basically a digital tri-bar mic that has a resolution to 0.00005". But a mic like that is only good for a few jobs as well for the same reason as the bore gauge.
 
Yes, your situation makes complete sense to choose an ID mic over dial bore. Mainly because your hands can fit in there.

A lot of the machine work I did was punch and die tooling to flare oil field pipe (upsetting is the technical term). The dies that clamped around the pipe were typically between 13" - 19" in length with a minimum of 9" straight bore on both sizes. Bore sizes ranged from 2.375" - 4.500". We were checking for taper from front to back with a dial bore gauge.

I rebuilt a 350 small block for my cousin a few years back. Had blown head gaskets, oil leaks and each cylinder was not round. He didn't understand the cylinder being shaped like an egg until he ran that dial bore gauge and could actually see the deviation.

Just curious on everyone's preference. Digital or dial read out?
 
I have a starret thats messed up in the thumbwheel. where can I send it to get fixed, back to them?
 
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