Need some informed opinions on a CR rebuild

B

BrianB

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Same old CR story and I have read a lot for the past 2 months. However here goes a first post....

I am down on compression in cylinder #3 and #5 in a 2006 Mega Cab so I am planning for a rebuild. I am familiar with marine engines and have quite a bit of spare marine 12V stuff(enough to build 2 engines) and a couple of spare engines, but the CR stuff is new to me. I have been having a tough time deciding on rebuilding the CR or just putting a 12V in which is another set of issues for another time. But for the CR side of things I need some thoughts, and I have done a lot of searching and reading.

Target: 2006 CR engine build list for a 450-600hp target engine, as good on mpg as it can be, with a long lived engine (400-500K miles). This is mainly a DD that I will not race, and I do tow occasionally, but when I do it is with some weight (15K to 25K for 300 miles, and 30K for 100 miles. I currently use a 2 ton or better when towing but would prefer to use just one truck for it all):

Head
-Hamilton 188/220 cam
-a full checkout of the head, valves & valve seats
-Inconel valves on intake side of things, is this needed, nice to have, or good to do given the cost?
-Seats – upgrades recommended? Read about SBI seats oversize with extra press - thoughts?
-Springs – Hamilton 110lb are they needed? Reading would suggest they are not, but I am leaning toward doing it.
-Thread head core plug openings & install pipe plugs. Read this, but don’t know why to do it other than stiffness and durability.
-Injectors fully tested. Prefer all new injectors, not rebuilt based on past experiences in the off road market and heavy truck market. The prices are shocking on these CR injectors, as well as the M series cummins.
-03-04 injector tips depending on final piston most probably F1 based on reading, but unsure right now.
-I have a stainless AFE bladerunner exhaust manifold.
-For the intake, I will get a CFM
-Studs? I think stock bolts would work, but studs would be better. The question is do I really need them?

Block: Any preferences in the Houston area on a machine shop that can do the necessary work right and timely.
-QSB480 pistons. I thought about monotherms(and believe they are better), but there is very little info available from posts after they are put in for daily drivers. I gathered, possibly wrongly, that potentially the rings are high(to high?) in the piston, but again I have had trouble finding info after the builds on non-race motors.
-Thoughts on under piston jets, any mods needed for long life? Metal over plastic preference? This seems to be really important to long life and piston cooling.
- new rings, end gaps? Types/brands?
Rods:
-12V marine? - I have a couple of sets of stock marine sets.
-24V stock rods? – I have
-24V forged rods?
When reading up it seems that 425/480 QSB marine rods are upgraded, True or False?
What rods would you choose and why, other than billet, since I do not believe I need them?
-Balanced bottom end
-Oil System will be stock unless - Marine 425/480 ISB lube pump and cooler are supposedly better I read, True or False? If true I will run these if they fit. I would really prefer upgrades here if they exist.
-New bearings throughout, any particular brand/type for high miles?
-ARP – thoughts on if really needed for rods and mains?

Other stuff
-Stock turbo will work at the lower end of the hp goal; potentially a Garrett GT3788 would be better over the range of hp goal, I just don’t know how well it would work at 450hp and if the money would be well spent. Thoughts?
-6.7 fuel rail and lines possibly
-Mitusa mechanical fuel pump – already have it
-Fuel filtration – Thinking about FF5618(25 micron), FF5601(10 micron), FS1000(7mic), Cat 1r0749(2mic). Overkill probably, but I run my boats that way with some variation.
-I will upgrade the intercooler most probably.
-CTS for monitoring, or possibly a tablet with a gauge app.
-Tune with EFI Live if I can with the piston/injector/tip combo. Switchable tunes for towing would also be nice.

Transmission will get upgraded or replaced

Thanks for the input...
 
STUDS? heck yes. it needs to be studded regardless.

and the cam is in the block, not in the head.

anything 10 micron or less is great for your fuel, depending on how cold it gets wherever you are.

what year intercooler? most folks go pretty far with the stokker. AND that Hamilton cam with help quite a bit with egt's if that's what your concerned with.

i use napa machine in conroe. there pretty quick and ive been using the, for 7 years.
just make sure if the head/ block needs surfaced to find out how much... you will need to check piston/valve clearance if thats the case. im just saying because i just did all this in the last 2 weeks.

zack is going to recommend springs and HD rods for that cam. some go without but i dont like to take those chances

when you drop the pan, look close for metal particulates in there. if you see anything i would strongly recommend a new oil cooler/ and gaskets.

here is some carnage i just went thru with 03/04 nozzles in a C.R. heat failure on #1 piston...

481388_565835020112526_300252897_n.jpg


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/704052_565941550101873_993397630_o.jpg
 
My recommendations and save some money!

EFI live for all programming and tuning. I believe that there DSP5 has been progressing forward which allows adjustable tuning. Understand that with EFI, tuning may negate some of the advantages to some parts and from what I have seen, what has been the norm before we could custom tune is not applicable now.

-A stock motor is all you really need

-Stock head….they have inconel vales from factory on the exhaust side. The intakes are fine for your 450-600 power range. If you want an upgrade, go to a full stainless valve. Save your money on a cam, no benefit to you with the power you are going for especially with EFI tuning. Your engine is a 06 so the head already incorporates the new seat design which was problematic in the 03-04 trucks. You can run upgraded springs and pushrods to run a little more RPM.

-Stock Rods for your application are fine. CR rods are known to hold 1200 HP and billet rods are overkill for you. At 600, factory rods are fine.

-New stock oil pump and new bearings

-Arp studs and new factory bolts for everything else

-Balance the stock rotating assembly

-Stock pistons work well and also known to handle 1200hp. If you want to change to a 03-04 style piston you can. In my opinion, for what you are going for it makes no difference.

-Injectors….This can be a topic but I don’t think you can go wrong with Exenergy (sp) or F1. Just send them your injectors and they come back better than new. I would run a 50 HP injector.
Leave the factory fuel lines, rail and everything else. Again, there is no advantage to 6.7L stuff. You will be running the new 6.7 fuel connector tube which is more than enough for what you need.

-Upgrade to a twin setup with a stock 351 over an s400 from maximized performance which would be good for 600 hp and then some.

AD100 with an additional 2 micron filter if you like. I have run set-ups with an additional filter head and a CAT 1R-0750 or 1R-0749…filter length varies between numbers.

A built tranny from a reputable place and you will be good to go.

My 2 cents.

Ohh, and a good tuner to get what you can from the motor and a safe tune.
 
Sixohh - Thanks for the input. I was aware the cam is in the block, but it does more related to the head than the block/pistons/crank, so that is why I put it there.

If I recall correctly from reading through the forum, I believe you went with the QSB pistons, are you happy with the outcome?

Thanks

Brian
 
ReyChem - thanks for the input, I have had a lot of comments on staying more stock, and am continuing to read up.

Thanks

Brian
 
Has anyone every run stock QSB 480 injectors that would comment on them? I have seen some listed with members, but cannot send messages until my post count goes up.
 
You are spending (or thinking about) way too much money for 450-600hp. If you change to 480 pistons, then you have to change at least nozzles. Just rebuild it, you likely have broken rings. Add a decent turbo and a good tuner, and be happy with it. If you dont race, and dont sled pull, then why go through all the troubles and costs? Just my opinion.
 
I was hoping to increase reliability while I was in there through upgrading parts with stronger ones. While I was reading I did find some comments on higher mileage trucks, they were more the exception. Maybe they are out there, but I mainly saw broken engine comments.
 
Dump the 5.9 and put a 6.7 long block in it. Efi live and exhaust and your at 500hp reliably.

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BrianB said:
ReyChem - thanks for the input, I have had a lot of comments on staying more stock, and am continuing to read up.

Thanks

Brian
Click to expand...

Don't go too crazy reading up or you will go blind! There are many reputable people here on this board. Talk to a few, find the one you like, and stick with it. Most of the failures I have seen and continue to see are injector failures due to people not being reasonable, running to much pressure, running crap for fuel.

Look at the dates of the threads too. A lot has changed in the last few years.
 
I will take a look at posts on a 6.7 long block to see how difficult this is.


Thanks
 
RayChem

Crap for fuel is one of my biggest worries, since I drive in Mexico a fair amount. I always seem to get less mpg on the gas and diesel there also.

Brian
 
Last edited:
The 6.7 swap looks interesting, I just need to know more about injectors, specifically if anyone has figured out how to run 6.7 injectors with a 06 ECM, and the mpg's of the 6.7 vs my 5.9. Back to searching and reading.

Brian
 
The ecm will fire the 6.7 injectors

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