Only starts with Ether

9 LIVES

9 LIVES

Demolition Expert
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
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I have a work truck that my business partner mostly drives that is an 04 2500 with 190K miles. Lately it has been giving us a heck of an issue with the first cold start of the day. In order to start the truck you have to give it a shot of ether to start in the morning or whatever time of day it might be. If not it will just crank and crank with no fire!

After the first fire of the day its good all day! A friend of his suggested opening some valve under the hood to make sure the in tank lift pump works which it does (it gushed fuel out) I suspected that it was the CP3 going bad but a few other people we talked to said if it was then it wouldn't even start with ether.

Could something be bleeding off fuel pressure while it sits? What else should we check? It had a code for the TPMS and we replaced that sensor and it didn't help.
 
Injector return rate and connector tube torque is where I'd start

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It isn’t building enough rail pressure to fire. If someone has cracked lines loose or had one off then sure you can try to polish and retorque tubes. If not I’d venture to guess you’ll be needing injectors.
 
It will be Injectors and LV.

Its extremely rare for CP3 to cause No starts or LONG cranks.

Cross tube(s) coming loose after Years of being seat correctly is not likely, Yes days or weeks after Torquing possibly.

Its not possible for fuel to be released in Most common Rails, The suction/flow valves are shut. The lift system in Rams will almost instantly feed the CP3, the GP will take over from there and the Truck starts. OP the truck is simply (Injectors) returning to much fuel to during cranking to produce MIN 1800PSI for the Pressure senor to send signal to the ECM to fire the proper Injector to start engine.
 
It's not common, but I've had a crappy speed/timing sensor do that.
 
My truck has a warning in the engine compartment that says no ether, that immediate engine damage will result. I don't know what's that about, probably so much compression in a diesel that the ether isn't burning as much as exploding.
 
GaveUpOnTV said:
My truck has a warning in the engine compartment that says no ether, that immediate engine damage will result. I don't know what's that about, probably so much compression in a diesel that the ether isn't burning as much as exploding.
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Engines that already have a start assist feature like glow plugs or intake heater will have such a warning
 
The either vapors are combustion-able, if the grid heaters engage the vapors may ignite , its happens, the only case I know of when this happened on Rams 5.9/6.7 blew the intake boot off.
 
LV ( limiting Valve ), PRV (Pressure Relief Valve) , RV (Relief Valve). Its located next to the Pressure sensor on the rail. They all leak after years of service, some leak very little other can fail and NO start will occur.
 
I guess we will try replacing the pressure relief valve. That would be a lot cheaper start. We had someone hookup to the truck and check the injectors. They seemed to all test out fine.
 
9 lives Contact us for the LV, TC Diesel, 763-228-7121 Todd.
 
9 LIVES said:
I guess we will try replacing the pressure relief valve. That would be a lot cheaper start. We had someone hookup to the truck and check the injectors. They seemed to all test out fine.
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Easy enough to check without just throwing parts at it. Take the fitting and line off of the pressure relief valve.. slightly bend the line. Have someone crank while you watch. If fuel comes out of the valve then that’s your issue. I bet most of your fuel will come out of the line, from injectors return.
 
YoungDiesel27 said:
Easy enough to check without just throwing parts at it. Take the fitting and line off of the pressure relief valve.. slightly bend the line. Have someone crank while you watch. If fuel comes out of the valve then that’s your issue. I bet most of your fuel will come out of the line, from injectors return.
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Thats not the correct method.

1 Disconnect FCA then just push it back on.

2 Remove the Return line 17mm Banjo bolt ,one washer should stay with the bolt, the washer below the banjo just move the hard line and grab the washer under the banjo.

3 YOU must cap the hard line, fuel will come up from the CP3 return port and you will get fuel all over the engine compartment. Just wrap a rag around it and tape it up, theirs no pressure so it won't leak, or 1/2 bolt 1" long 2 washers 1 1/2 nut and finger tight will stop it.

4 Start the engine leave run for 1 minute then unplug the FCA ,this will MAX out the rail pressure and your Gage should read 26.1K. if the LV is leaking shutdown ,it needs replacing. if it don't leak and YOU CANNOT make 26.1 your Injectors or Tubes are leaking, if the Tubes have been install for Months/Years without issues its likely the Injectors. If you make 26.1K Rail pressure and the valve NOT leaking alls good Carry on.

5 When you unplug the FCA the engine will Knock, its just combustion knock and NO damage is occurring So don't panic.
 
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TCDiesel said:
Thats not the correct method.

1 Disconnect FCA then just push it back on.

2 Remove the Return line 17mm Banjo bolt ,one washer should stay with the bolt, the washer below the banjo just move the hard line and grab the washer under the banjo.

3 YOU must cap the hard line, fuel will come up from the CP3 return port and you will get fuel all over the engine compartment. Just wrap a rag around it and tape it up, theirs no pressure so it won't leak, or 1/2 bolt 1" long 2 washers 1 1/2 nut and finger tight will stop it.

4 Start the engine leave run for 1 minute then unplug the FCA ,this will MAX out the rail pressure and your Gage should read 26.1K. if the LV is leaking shutdown ,it needs replacing. if it don't leak and YOU CANNOT make 26.1 your Injectors or Tubes are leaking, if the Tubes have been install for Months/Years without issues its likely the Injectors. If you make 26.1K Rail pressure and the valve NOT leaking alls good Carry on.

5 When you unplug the FCA the engine will Knock, its just combustion knock and NO damage is occurring So don't panic.
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Sure that’s a better way to see if it can support max pressure...has nothing to do with if it is or is not leaking and causing the cold start issue.
 
It's going to end up needing injectors. Since it runs alright once it's started, I'd feel confident that the return rate on one or more injectors is too high. We can go ahead and debate troubleshooting methods, as that is always a joy, but it's going to require injector(s) to correct the issue . LOL
 
YoungDiesel27 said:
Sure that’s a better way to see if it can support max pressure...has nothing to do with if it is or is not leaking and causing the cold start issue.
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If the LV is leaking when cranking or idle it will not start PERIOD.

T&C Diesel has sold over 50,000 LVs for just about Every HPCR system.

Your method does not consider the Return rate of the injectors. 1000s of Customers have replace the Injectors then the LV becomes the Problem.

CR systems in most cases do NOT conform to Logic ,they conform to experience.

You are welcome to type whatever you want.
 
TCDiesel said:
If the LV is leaking when cranking or idle it will not start PERIOD.

T&C Diesel has sold over 50,000 LVs for just about Every HPCR system.

Your method does not consider the Return rate of the injectors. 1000s of Customers have replace the Injectors then the LV becomes the Problem.

CR systems in most cases do NOT conform to Logic ,they conform to experience.

You are welcome to type whatever you want.
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Not trying to argue, this is the only engine type I work on. What I posted allows you to put your eyes right on the relief valve while cranking. Obviously if it’s leaking it’s not gonna start. Don’t matter, we’re both trying to help the guy, only difference is I’m just not trying to sell him parts.
 
I could not care if he buy's or not, So just keep on guessing.

Your Method simply does NOT cover the failure 100%. If I was using your method I would be selling 1000s more and fleecing Owners. Without getting to the root cause of the problem.

You can use whatever Method you like. From My standpoint its come up short and you could be sending the owner on his way with a potential problem.
 
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