Out if ideas!

holsky

holsky

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Oct 5, 2010
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Out of ideas!

Hey guys I'm completely stumped with this truck right now. I'm all out of ideas, the truck is an 05 fummins with an 89 ve pumped. We have been trying to figure out a popping/hazing/cutting out issues for the last 4-5 months. Originally the truck shut down like it ran out of fuel.

We have installed new dap injectors, sent the IP back to II to have tested and they said it was perfect, put a new lift pump on it and reading 7-8 psi at idle.

We have also hooked up a new fuel line and ran it into another fuel tank to see if anything was messed up with the sending unit but still having the same problems. And I've checked the valve lash 4 times.

Pleas help me! LOL

Thanks,
Austin
 
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Have you checked the wiring to the FSS? Make sure the power is not intermittent? Also when you had the IP off could the timing gear have jumped a tooth? Have you checked to make sure all the timing gears are aligned, and timed properly?

Any chance you got a couple of the hard injector lines mixed up. I remember someone telling me they picked up a truck for super cheap one time because it would do similar things to what you describe. He said he double checked all the lines to diagrams and found two of the lines had been switched. Put them to rights and the truck ran great!
 
oldestof11 said:
Timing might be off.
Click to expand...

Before we pulled the pump off we pinned the motor and when I adjusted the valves before I made marks on the bottom of the dampner and oil pan and everything was all lined up.

I don't have the tools to check timing nor do I really know how too.

thrashingcows said:
Have you checked the wiring to the FSS? Make sure the power is not intermittent? Also when you had the IP off could the timing gear have jumped a tooth? Have you checked to make sure all the timing gears are aligned, and timed properly?

Any chance you got a couple of the hard injector lines mixed up. I remember someone telling me they picked up a truck for super cheap one time because it would do similar things to what you describe. He said he double checked all the lines to diagrams and found two of the lines had been switched. Put them to rights and the truck ran great!
Click to expand...

What should the FSS be reading? If I remember right it is connected to the starter wire and has been like that for the last 2 years.

No I have not pulled the front cover off to check the timing, we have tried to turn the IP and with no real change.

The injection lines are in the right place. All of these problems started before we even got new injectors/or sent the pump back to II. Because we though that an injector was bad with the way it was running. So that's why I'm out of ideS bc we have checked the 3 major things with fuel pressure, injectors, and had the pump tested.
 
Has anyone actually taken the injection pump APART to verify no damage?
IIRC, bench testing the pump only checks flow, not really what it does under loads.

If it's not the pump, then it's compression or valve train related.

Last week a buddy called me after putting a head gasket on a '93 and said it was popping and carrying on, stumbling lack of RPM.
I got to looking and it turns out he'd missed a lifter with a pushrod (bent it all to hell) and #3 exhaust valve was not opening.
I brought him up another pushrod and problem solved.

My point is, if it's not fuel related, it's usually, in some way, directly or indirectly, compression related.

BEFORE you go any further, run a compression test.

Mark.
 
Mark Nixon said:
Has anyone actually taken the injection pump APART to verify no damage?
IIRC, bench testing the pump only checks flow, not really what it does under loads.

If it's not the pump, then it's compression or valve train related.

Last week a buddy called me after putting a head gasket on a '93 and said it was popping and carrying on, stumbling lack of RPM.
I got to looking and it turns out he'd missed a lifter with a pushrod (bent it all to hell) and #3 exhaust valve was not opening.
I brought him up another pushrod and problem solved.

My point is, if it's not fuel related, it's usually, in some way, directly or indirectly, compression related.

BEFORE you go any further, run a compression test.

Mark.
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Ok thanks a lot Mark, I don't know what II actually did with the pump we sent it to them to have it checked out. So who knows what exactly they did.

I need to get a compression tester. What adapter do I need or what is the thread size for the injector opening?
 
I'm not certain on the sizes.
I've always had someone else with the tools run compression checks when I'm in doubt.

There's so many variables to losing compression that in this case I feel a compression test will give an idea of where you might look.

If it's low across all 6 cylinders, it might be valve timing off due to a slipped gear, if it's varied between cylinders, it's ring, piston, or cylinder damage causing slower leakage, or even a cam rubbing lobes off.
If it's dead on one hole or 2 adjacent holes, it could be a bad head gasket, or even a hole blown in a piston, or, again, a cam lobe issue.
A poorly sealing valve will also cause compression loss, as a totally burnt one can cause a dead cylinder, of course.

It's basic troubleshooting 101: How healthy is the engine, compression wise?

Mark.
 
Will it fire on starting fluid? Its got compression if it will.
Will the truck start and run but not not carry a load? Almost sounds like sucking air or a timing issue
 
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Smokin ACE said:
Will it fire on starting fluid? Its got compression if it will.
Will the truck start and run but not not carry a load? Almost sounds like sucking air or a timing issue
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The truck runs, hazing a little bit at idle and some what smooth. Trying to drive it , it hazes and cuts out 100 times worse and will not clear up when revving it and no power. No black smoke either so 99% of the fuel is being unburnt.
 
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We pulled the injectors and this is what they look like. I'm wondering why number two looks the way it does. These injectors have pretty much zero miles on them. Just idle time trying to figure out why the truck is still cutting out, missing, and hazing really bad.

44BDE673-3065-43F4-ADDD-96CC71CF6CDB.jpg
 
holsky said:
The truck runs, hazing a little bit at idle and some what smooth. Trying to drive it , it hazes and cuts out 100 times worse and will not clear up when revving it and no power. No black smoke either so 99% of the fuel is being unburnt.
Click to expand...

THAT sounds exactly like slipped timing. As for the #2 injector I have no idea. Is the nozzle cracked?
 
I'm thinking #2 isn't firing.

Try a hillbilly compression test.
Make it so the truck won't start, then crank on it and listen for the starter to have a speed variation.
If something's bent, broken or leaking, it will be noticeable with this test.

It's not scientific, but it has worked.

BUT, after seeing that injector, I'll go out on a limb and say #2 has issues somewhere. :D

Mark.
 
it appears #2 has either no compression, or no fuel. Or possibly both.

Compression test is in order for sure.

If the injectors go back in try cracking the lines and seeing if they are all getting the same fuel pressure (aka squirting everywhere).

If they are and it is running, crack each injector line one at a time and listen to the sound of the motor and then tighten it up. When you crack the line to each injector the motor should make a distinct change in sound. If it doesn't on a particular cylinder. Well, that's not good.
 
thrashingcows said:
Any chance you got a couple of the hard injector lines mixed up. I remember someone telling me they picked up a truck for super cheap one time because it would do similar things to what you describe. He said he double checked all the lines to diagrams and found two of the lines had been switched. Put them to rights and the truck ran great!
Click to expand...


Wow you were so right. I didn't have a clue but another guy came over to look at it that knows 6.0l real well and found that some of the wiring to the pump was all messed up and also my buddy had two of the damn injection lines crossed and he said is running great now. He had 2 and 4 crossed.

I really appreciate all of the help fellas! I think I was just so burnt out working in it I was done and over it and couldn't think straight anymore and was out if ideas since I've been working on it for the last two years getting everything straightend out after the original guy rigged the whole swap.

And I figure what caused this whole mess was the wiring problem which led to us putting the new injectors in and then getting the lines crossed over. So we then had two problems we needed to figure out. LOL
 
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Glad you guys got it sorted out and that it wasn't a hard nor costly solution for you guys. :cool:

Mark.
 
Is it easy to mix up hard lines on a VE? Seems like there would be some bending involved in that, at least thats how it would be on a PPump.
 
1stgen stories always have a happy ending. :)

Congrats on getting it going, man.
 
DDually said:
Is it easy to mix up hard lines on a VE? Seems like there would be some bending involved in that, at least thats how it would be on a PPump.
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far far easier to mix up lines on a VE than a ppump. I've never actually mixed any up myself but they all require a little bending to get in to place anyway because the pump isn't fixed like a ppump, it can rotate to advance or retard the timing. I can see, hypothetically, getting them mixed up relatively easily if you're not careful or checking your work well
 
rlebar said:
far far easier to mix up lines on a VE than a ppump. I've never actually mixed any up myself but they all require a little bending to get in to place anyway because the pump isn't fixed like a ppump, it can rotate to advance or retard the timing. I can see, hypothetically, getting them mixed up relatively easily if you're not careful or checking your work well
Click to expand...

Very true, I remember when 2 of the lines on mine got mixed up while doing some work. Truck idled like crap and finally once we figured out it was the lines she ran fine. Lesson learned, always be sure to take your time and check your work. :Cheer:
 
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