P7100 from a block of steel...

C

Charles

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Okay, I have a topic that you guys can help me with here. I would like to have a P7100 with 8 P&B's in it, but apparently those are about as easy to come by as a unicorn wearing a pink sweater.

So...

Looking at pictures and the cutaway/explanation thread on them I found here, my question is aside from machining a new longer rack and appropriately numbered and timed camshaft, what is the big deal on machining a pump body from steel, and using exactly the same parts in a 6 cylinder pump, but adding two more P&B assemblies?

What I see is basically just a big port drilled the length of the pump body for fuel feed/return, a cam below to actuate the plungers, rack on the side, DV's bolted up top on blind holes and a governor assembly bolted to the back.

Someone with hand's on experience with the pumps, help me understand if there is some intrinsic reason why it isn't that straight-forward.



Second to that..... what's to keep a person from hooking a pump up to say a 20hp engine and running the outlets into graduated cylinders for pump tuning? Maybe also take a strobe light to each one to ensure that timing as well as flow was equal? Is there really anything else? Just quantity and timing right?


Lastly.... can someone explain how you actuate a timing light with an injection event. Like, Is there something that goes onto a DV that spills back to return, or does the injection line reconnect to the trigger, or what?

How do you time these things?


If this info is just dumb sh*t that anyone should already know, I apologize, point me to a link and I will gladly read it.

Thanks.
 
as for timing, there are adapters for timing lights out there that clamp onto the injection line. when the fuel is pressurized for the line's injection event, the line pulses and the sensor picks up on it.
 
ahale2772 said:
why? the time it would take to plan and machine would be insane, unless you value your time at nothing...

page 6.... (if he can find one, why cant you?)
newbie with unique project - Page 6 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

lots of pump talk...

Bosch P7100 pump information (collected) - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link to the collection of pump topics.

As to the 8 cylinder pump you showed, I don't know enough by visual inspection to know, and didn't read closely, so I may have missed it, but is that a P7100, or any one of the other 8 cylinder pumps more easily come by? If it is a P7100, it's the first picture I've seen of one, much less one in reality, or even farther still, for sale.

As to machining one, my point being, is it really that complex? You didn't actually explain why it would be. For a person with their own equipment, is it really that big of a deal or not? Unless there is something other than what I listed above, it isn't. That's why I wanted people with pump experience to tell me if there was some kind of circuit(s) that I am unaware of that would be hard to machine. Like why a head would be very hard to machine with cooling jackets for instance.

Lastly, if you want to sell me one.... let me know. And how much is that unicorn going to cost...

lol.


But seriously, I do thank you for the link.
 
You could talk to supersonic and see where he got his.

Or you could look into sigma and see what they have.

Or you could use aluminum lile the p7100 is made of in lieu of steel.
 
Charles said:
Thanks for the link to the collection of pump topics.

As to the 8 cylinder pump you showed, I don't know enough by visual inspection to know, and didn't read closely, so I may have missed it, but is that a P7100, or any one of the other 8 cylinder pumps more easily come by? If it is a P7100, it's the first picture I've seen of one, much less one in reality, or even farther still, for sale.

As to machining one, my point being, is it really that complex? You didn't actually explain why it would be. For a person with their own equipment, is it really that big of a deal or not? Unless there is something other than what I listed above, it isn't. That's why I wanted people with pump experience to tell me if there was some kind of circuit(s) that I am unaware of that would be hard to machine. Like why a head would be very hard to machine with cooling jackets for instance.

Lastly, if you want to sell me one.... let me know. And how much is that unicorn going to cost...

lol.


But seriously, I do thank you for the link.
Click to expand...

it is a varient of a p7100, to the point that it shares the same barrels, hold downs, ect... gov housings can be swapped, ect ect... I assume the cam options are less plentiful, but that is to be expected.

it could be done, clearly. just not worth the time when they can be had.

again, I'm assuming you value your time... time is money!

another thread about timing... with an electronic pickup. (not a way to "set" timing, just to check)
a discussion about timing... - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
 
Charles is posting again? Planning on on putting it on your 7.3?

I would call the boys at Hypermax
 
6.4 F-350 said:
Holey Shiit that costs almost as much as my 2.6 truck for just a pump setup.
Click to expand...

Which is why it's not even an option...

My time on the Bridgeport is nowhere in the same zipcode with anything like that.

No one has said what would be the complicated part about machining a pump body yet anyway.

A piece of stock that is through-bored on each P&B centerline, with the barrel o-ring sealing surfaces being one critical surface, although being an o-ring, hardly that tight of a tolerance, a hole drilled all the way through from front to back so that each barrel gets delivery pressure and a couple more intersecting that circuit from either side wherever you wanted an inlet/return fitting.

Use factory bosch P7100 bearings, delivery valves, plungers, barrels, delivery valve holders, governor assembly, so on and so forth.

Aluminum makes it that much easier.

I'm just looking for someone to explain the.... OH..... part, where it makes sense why machining a small block of stock to accept some P&B's isn't straight-forward.

Otherwise I may look into buying a 6 cylinder pump and stretch it out.
 
TMONEYDIESEL said:
Charles is posting again? Planning on on putting it on your 7.3?

I would call the boys at Hypermax
Click to expand...


I'm considering a mechanical 7.3 for a driver. My chassis is an electrical nightmare, and I've always found a mech diesel soothing, and the most pure form of any injection system for a diesel.

I am toying with the idea of losing dynamically adjustable timing and fuel for the pure simplicity and brute force of mechanically driven plungers and barrels.

I think a person could make decent power before getting too fussy for cold starts and general driving around by having 2 more nozzles and 2 more P&B's on an 8 cylinder engine. I think head flow is roughly the same.
 
Charles said:
Which is why it's not even an option...

My time on the Bridgeport is nowhere in the same zipcode with anything like that.

No one has said what would be the complicated part about machining a pump body yet anyway.

A piece of stock that is through-bored on each P&B centerline, with the barrel o-ring sealing surfaces being one critical surface, although being an o-ring, hardly that tight of a tolerance, a hole drilled all the way through from front to back so that each barrel gets delivery pressure and a couple more intersecting that circuit from either side wherever you wanted an inlet/return fitting.

Use factory bosch P7100 bearings, delivery valves, plungers, barrels, delivery valve holders, governor assembly, so on and so forth.

Aluminum makes it that much easier.

I'm just looking for someone to explain the.... OH..... part, where it makes sense why machining a small block of stock to accept some P&B's isn't straight-forward.

Otherwise I may look into buying a 6 cylinder pump and stretch it out.
Click to expand...


I'd have to guess the hardest part would be machining the fuel gallley, to feed the spill ports (tho I suppose you could make it more of just a through hole, like you said)

also... not sure what a p7100 has for oiling the cam?

what is the pump going to be used for?
 
Can anyone look up this Bosch pump number and tell me what this pump is:

RQV450-1150MWV17575



Other problem is pumps with Ag governors where the automotive style housing and governor assembly will not interchange.

I don't want to be building my own governor assembly and trying to reinvent the wheel in terms of rpm limit, hunting rpm down low, breaking your neck over a bump in the road and busting driveshaft u-joints....

If I can use the exact same governor housing, delivery valves, P&B's and such that a 12v engine uses then I will be light years ahead.

Machining a body and bolting on the same old parts initially seems the better bet vs trying to make some oddball pos 8 cylinder pump act right...

But I don't have the knowledge I need to make that call. I'm sure people on here can tell me what might or might not stop a person from making a 6 cylinder pump that can be found along just about any roadside ditch for nothing into an 8 cylinder model.
 
I think your main problem is going to be the pump cam, I think your project is do able but very time consuming any way you look at it. Good luck.
 
What about 2 four cylinder models? PITA I'm sure and those are made of gold though.
 
John Robinson said:
Powerstroke SuperPro Pulling Pump :: Injection Pumps :: Scheid Diesel


Scheid has one....not sure what it cost but i bet by the time you pull all your hair out making it work ,it will be cheap
Click to expand...

Yeah, that pump's slick. I talked to one of those guys about that pump already and the first problem for me is the AG gov. Apparently it won't easily change to anything else. Problem 2 is that while it looks awesome as a V, that won't leave me any room for intake runners to get up and out of cylinders 1 and 2, something I won't miss if I rid myself of heui crap in this same area. An inline pump offers much more room on the sides.

It is a slick pump though. If Dan gave it to me, I'd run it, lol
 
Charles I completely agree with you. I dont think that there is anything scientific about machining the pump body yourself. Honestly after watching the pump breakdown videos i cannot believe how simple stupid these things really are. If you have the time i think the effort of machining it will be well worth the cost savings in the end. Besides the pride factor of doing it yourself always is a plus as well! Good Luck
 
Woah! Blast from the past...

Charles, I think the pump used in the Newbie with Unique Project thread is a P3000.
 
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