Pullers: ODL Front Axle Options

We are currently running a Dana 60, with a spool, 35 spline chrome moly axles, Warn hubs, and Chevy spindles re-drilled to fit on the Dodge knuckles. For the first time ever, I went a whole season without any front axle/hub/driveline issues.

That being said I have always wanted to go to an FDS75. There are a lot of 4x4 mod guys around here running that axle, and a few guys running a Dana 70. The 70 guys do occasionally break stuff, and the FDS guys never break front axle stuff, at least I never see it, maybe I'm missing it. Also they are 2000 lbs lighter than us LPS guys.

My biggest concerns would be

-Overall cost to get an FDS, they aren't cheap by any means out of a truck, unless you get lucky and find an old 4x4 F600 or something kicking around somewhere thats rotted to F&ck in a junkyard or something.

-The center pumpkin with the sheer size of the unit, will it fit under one of our trucks WITHOUT a dry sump? If not, there's another pile of cash you gotta fork over.

-Figuring out the suspension, You would probably have to do like the bigger class diesel trucks do where you cut off the coil spring pockets and control arm mounts and make your own four-link setup. Again, open wallet for a set of four coilovers, new control arms, and lots of fab work.

-Getting rims for less than a fortune, Probably have to make some steelies or buy Reel's

-Figuring out a way to get some lighter brakes on the front end, without having to buy some big dollar hubs and willwoods.

If anyone has an answer to the bottom two questions, I'd love to hear it, I'm way too cheap to just call Proformance Pros and order all that stuff :umno:
 
buy a cheap f106 rear axle.
weld on knuckles of your choice. this can be cheap or expensive depending which way you go.
use 05+ ford unit bearings ( timken ones are around $200 each online).
use stock brakes or branik has a light weight hat disk setup then use some lightweight wilwood calipers
then select axles based on your price range.

I'm sure just buying an fds75 is cheaper.
 
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I think one of the main points is to eliminate the unit bearings though, thats a major failure point and seem like they just kind of fall apart without much warning. I think you'd be better off going with old Kingpin dana 60 outers but then you're back to dana 60 stuff and you might as well just run a Dana 60...........
 
bigstacks95 said:
I think one of the main points is to eliminate the unit bearings though, thats a major failure point and seem like they just kind of fall apart without much warning. I think you'd be better off going with old Kingpin dana 60 outers but then you're back to dana 60 stuff and you might as well just run a Dana 60...........
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the ford unit bearings are nothing like the dodge ones. the ford has a nut built into the assembly so the axle does not hold it together like the ones found on a dodge. The ford ones also have rather large bearings
 
honestly I don't see anything wrong with dana 60 outer parts. you can use 40 spline 1.708 axles just like what's used in the fds75.
 
I read on Pirate4x4 that Jantz engineering will make a dana 60 40-spline spool that is setup for the dana 80. Assuming that the material around the splines is sufficient, this would make for a pretty strong setup.
 
Dana 80 Converted to a steer axle is the route I took. Purchased a set of knuckles and C's from "Solid Axle". Along with that came 40 Spline drive flanges, rotors, calipers, pads, 8 x 6.5 hubs. I had a custom sleeve machined for the axle tube and installed it at the face of the ID of the axle tube where the Outter C Welds on. I machined a pocket inside for a slip fit axle seal from "Seals It" which retains any oil coming down the tube. The Carrier is a 37 Spline Detroit locker. I run 37 Spline inner axles from Branik with 40 Spline outters. All in all there's about $5000 in a complete setup. Of course that is minus 4 links, Shocks and any costs associated with fabrication if you do it on your own. I went this route to keep my C.O.G. for the truck lower, thus the motor is down in the frame rather than raising the suspension or motor to get over a FDS Military housing. I do run a dry sump pan as well.
 
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All in, did you have to go dry sump to clear the front end or would a front sump pan have cleared?
 
bigstacks95 said:
All in, did you have to go dry sump to clear the front end or would a front sump pan have cleared?
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Depends how particular you get with laying out hydraulic steering and a trac-bar. Actually a standard pan in stock position would clear given you took full benefit of the rule where the front of the motor is at the limit of 17” or whatever your rule states in front of the centerline of the axle
 
jones95runner said:
When we were running 4.88 axle gears we were breaking back driveshaft parts almost every time we got on a good track. This was at around 1400hp, we were busting 1480 yokes on the drop box. Went to a billet 1480 yoke and started breaking the slip yoke or shaft.

Ended up having to go to 1610 stuff to get it to last

I built a steer 70 this winter with a spool and 6.20 gears, still running 35 spline axles and broke one inner and outer this year, those axles prob had 50 or so hooks on them. I'll have to go back and look but I found a place that would make me some 41 spline stuff to put in it.
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Was just discussing this the other night too. This was my next debacle. Currently 1550 joints and planned on keeping them but Petros recommend 1610. I am currently 1600hp and have broke every single piece in the driveline besides driveshafts, front axle or u joints this season. And I only got 7-8 pulls in. I'm done with breakage and am excited to go odl. Just want it to be right the first time.
 
I got a dana 60/jantz70 that I will be selling got all the parts needed for pulling billet u joints, free spin, 35 spline axle , locker, setup for cuts or dot,hyd steering also have brand new 60 lockers ,70 lockers, was under the chapter 11 truck east coast pullers
 
ComnRailPwr said:
Was just discussing this the other night too. This was my next debacle. Currently 1550 joints and planned on keeping them but Petros recommend 1610. I am currently 1600hp and have broke every single piece in the driveline besides driveshafts, front axle or u joints this season. And I only got 7-8 pulls in. I'm done with breakage and am excited to go odl. Just want it to be right the first time.
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Our ss truck has 1550s on the rear, and I'm pretty sure most of the others do as well. 6 20s realy help a ton on keeping the driveshafts together.
 
bigstacks95 said:
We are currently running a Dana 60, with a spool, 35 spline chrome moly axles, Warn hubs, and Chevy spindles re-drilled to fit on the Dodge knuckles. For the first time ever, I went a whole season without any front axle/hub/driveline issues.

That being said I have always wanted to go to an FDS75. There are a lot of 4x4 mod guys around here running that axle, and a few guys running a Dana 70. The 70 guys do occasionally break stuff, and the FDS guys never break front axle stuff, at least I never see it, maybe I'm missing it. Also they are 2000 lbs lighter than us LPS guys.

My biggest concerns would be

-Overall cost to get an FDS, they aren't cheap by any means out of a truck, unless you get lucky and find an old 4x4 F600 or something kicking around somewhere thats rotted to F&ck in a junkyard or something.

-The center pumpkin with the sheer size of the unit, will it fit under one of our trucks WITHOUT a dry sump? If not, there's another pile of cash you gotta fork over.

-Figuring out the suspension, You would probably have to do like the bigger class diesel trucks do where you cut off the coil spring pockets and control arm mounts and make your own four-link setup. Again, open wallet for a set of four coilovers, new control arms, and lots of fab work.

-Getting rims for less than a fortune, Probably have to make some steelies or buy Reel's

-Figuring out a way to get some lighter brakes on the front end, without having to buy some big dollar hubs and willwoods.

If anyone has an answer to the bottom two questions, I'd love to hear it, I'm way too cheap to just call Proformance Pros and order all that stuff :umno:
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1) A stock take out fds-75 will run you anywhere from $900-$1400 depending on who you find to get one from. Narrow it to accept short side axles on each side, stock axles are cheap and hold up very well even on cuts.
2) A front sump oil pan has to be ran in order to clear the center section, a few hundred bucks brand new or pretty cheap for used industrial ones. Factory oiling guys will have to also buy a pickup tube.
3) Coilovers are gonna run you about $1400, and some fab work on the housing and frame after you cut the factory mounts. New 4 link setup can be made very cheap, just use the factory frame mounts.
4) Kecks makes an 8 or 6 bolt hub and aluminum brake setup very reasonably, use your current wheels saves you some coin. We use his bubs on everything.

If you ever plan on going cuts this is the route I would take the first time around, if not the option All-In mentioned above is the way to go.
 
Thanks for the awesome info Dustin. I feel like this is the route to go to just be done with it, then you wont have to mess with it ever again. I see your pics on facebook, you're just using the stock 4 link mounts? I have seen guys build the brackets farther back on the frame. I assume it doesn't matter how long the arms are as long are as long as they are parallel.
 
bigstacks95 said:
Thanks for the awesome info Dustin. I feel like this is the route to go to just be done with it, then you wont have to mess with it ever again. I see your pics on facebook, you're just using the stock 4 link mounts? I have seen guys build the brackets farther back on the frame. I assume it doesn't matter how long the arms are as long are as long as they are parallel.
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Yes we just mimic the factory geometry, where guys get into trouble is when they change to single arm or opposing angles. Length really doesn't matter much, most of it comes down to preference and what ties in with your current frame trussing.
 
Well I just found a decently priced FDS90 locally that has fine spline axles and 7.20 r&p. My questions for you guys that have experience with these is what is the differences between the 75 & the 90? Also what is the most cost effective way yet hold up to cuts and large single turbo. Don't want to get into big expensive aftermarket axles and hubs if I don't have too. No local axles for me to look at and I have zero experience with front odl. I have narrowed and built rears but this is first front.

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The 1.75" axles will hold up fine and i welded my spiders and run a lockout on one axle. Mine has the big 6 lug hubs already on it. The only real difference is the knuckles are bigger on the 90, the bigger axle shafts and the hubs. Only thing i can think of on mine is that they used the FDS75 spindles and hubs on the fds90 knuckles. Cut the long side down and use 2 short side inner axles. If you go to my FB page i have all the pics on there of my build
 
Jeremy Denson (Disturbed) told me that the FDS90 knuckles are bigger and stronger and they are 34-spline 1-3/4" shafts, otherwise pretty much the same.


I spent months looking for an FDS90 that didn't cost 3 grand but settled for building a front with 2.5T Toploader Knuckles/Hubs and F106 center
 
Thanks a lot Jeremy. I'll check out your pictures. That info was exactly what I wanted to hear and was looking for.

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