The fat kid rides the short bus

Chowderhead72

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Jan 24, 2008
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I am really starting to feel like a rider of said shortbus.

I have been researching Garret turbos and my head is spinning.. Charts, boost tables, AR, GT, GTX, ARGHH!!!!.........

Could somone please give me the cliffnotes version of what I need to know in selecting a Garret turbo?? I am on the fence between a silver 62 with a set of exergy 50-60 hp injectors or a Garret. I am looking for a great turbo without changing CP3s (bag'o'parts maybe) but no duals or real modified pump. No towing ever; truck is a toy/daily driver.

Help the fat kid please...
 
Call forced and be done with it. Garrett has a retarded system imo, even though they make good turbos.

Sent from my phone.
 
I think garrett has one of the best systems out there for naming turbos once you learn it LOL. From garretts site
GT Basics / Nomenclature

Today, Garrett has a wider selection of GT-series turbos available than ever before. As a result of this, please note that we have made a subtle modification to the GT nomenclature.

In our product catalog, all offerings are grouped according to their turbine wheel frame size. The frame size of a turbo or CHRA is dictated by its turbine wheel inducer diameter . The larger the turbine inducer, the bigger the frame size-- so any turbo in the GT42 family has a larger turbine wheel inducer than those in the GT35 family, and so on.

In the model name of each turbo or CHRA, you'll also notice two digits after the frame size. These two digits refer to the compressor exducer diameter, as measured in millimeters.

Let's use the GT4294 as an example. This unit has a GT42 frame size turbine coupled to a 94mm (exducer diameter) compressor wheel.

If there's an "R" on the end of a model name, this means the unit is ball bearing. So, a GT4294 is not ball bearing; whereas a GT4294R is ball bearing.

The biggest change related to the nomenclature is this: units which utilize a 53mm turbine wheel (as measured at the inducer) are now referred to as "GT25" frame size, while units employing the slightly larger 53.85mm turbine wheel are now referred to as "GT28" frame size.

For those familiar with our product range, this means that the unit formerly known as "the GT28R" (part number 466541-1) is now in the GT25R family. More specifically, it is now a GT2560R model.

A Guide To Garrett’s "GT" Model Numbers

GTXaabbcc:

GTX refers to next generation aerodynamics. The GTX line is visually differentiated from the GT line by the GTX compressor wheel which features 11 full blades with no splitter blades.
Positions "aa" refers to the frame size of the turbine wheel inducer.
For example the "GT28" in "GT2860RS" refers to its turbine wheel frame size family. All GT28 units use a turbine wheel with 53.85mm inducer diameter
As a rule of thumb, the larger the number, the larger the turbine wheel.
Positions "bb" designate the compressor wheel exducer (major) diameter in millimeters
The "60" in the GT2860RS example above has a 60mm compressor wheel exducer diameter.
Note: Wheel sizes 100mm and over omit the "1" (hundreds digit)
Example: the 02 in a GT4202 refers to its 102mm compressor wheel exducer diameter
Positions "cc" may be used to designate special features of a particular turbocharger where applicable
Example: GT2860RS
"R" = this is a Ball Bearing unit
"S" = used for units which require some differentiation from units in the same family
Compare a GT2860R to a GT2860RS. While both are ball bearing and externally similar, the GT2860RS is better suited for higher-flow applications than the GT2860R. In this case, the S reflects the higher-flowing nature of the GT2860RS
 
To explain some of the big words

Acronyms / Terminology

A/R

A/R is a numerical rating assigned to radial flow housings in order to distinguish the relative volumetric flow capacity of the housing. A/R does have units of length (inches or cm) based on the "A" over "R" description. One must be careful because the A/R values can only be compared within a single family of housings. 0.86 A/R of a GT28R and a 0.85 A/R of a GT40 have very different flow capacities. The term A/R is derived from:

Q = volumetric flow rate
A = cross-sectional area of the volute at the tongue
R = radius to the dynamic center (The dynamic center locates that point which divides the scroll area such
that half the flow passes above and half the flow passes below the dynamic center.)
V = tangential component of velocity

Q = A x V (where V = K (flow rate constant) / R)

Q = A x K/R

Q = K x A/R

Since K is a constant then A/R defines the flow capacity of hsgs within the same family.

Compressor A/R - Compressor performance is largely insensitive to changes in A/R, but generally larger A/R housings are used to optimize the performance for low boost applications and smaller housings are used for high boost applications. Typically there are not A/R options available for compressor housings.

Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing. Turbine A/R is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel, causing the wheel to spin faster at lower engine RPMs giving a quicker boost rise. This will also tend to increase exhaust backpressure and reduce the max power at high RPM. Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity and delay boost rise, but the lower backpressure will give better high-RPM power. When deciding between A/R options, be realistic with the intended vehicle use and use the A/R to bias the performance toward the desired powerband.

Choke Line
The choke line is on the right hand side of a compressor map and represents the flow limit. Properly sizing a turbo is important to prevent the compressor from operating past the choke line. When a turbocharger is run deep into choke, turbo speeds increase dramatically while compressor efficiency plunges (very high compressor outlet temps). Additionally, the turbo's durability is compromised by the resulting high thrust loads.

CHRA
(Center Housing & Rotating Assembly)
The CHRA is essentially a turbocharger minus the compressor and turbine housings

Clipped Turbine Wheel
When an angle is machined on the turbine wheel exducer (outlet side), the wheel is said to be "clipped". Clipping causes a minor increase in the wheel's flow capability; however, it dramatically lowers the turbo efficiency. This reduction in efficiency causes the turbo to come up on boost at a later engine speed (ex. increased turbo lag). High performance applications should never use a clipped turbine wheel. All Garrett GT turbos use modern unclipped turbine wheels.

Corrected Air Flow
When plotting actual airflow data on a compressor map, the flow must be corrected to account for different atmospheric conditions that affect air density.
Example:
Air Temperature (Air Temp) - 60°F
Barometric Pressure (Baro) - 14.7 psi
Engine air consumption (Actual Flow) = 50 lb/min
Corrected Flow= Actual Flow SQR([Air Temp+460]/545)/ Baro/13.95
Corrected Flow= 50*SQR([60+460]/545)/ (14.7/13.95) = 46.3 lb/min

Efficiency Contours
The efficiency contours depict the regional efficiency of the compressor stage. When sizing a turbo, it is important to maintain the proposed lugline with a high efficiency range on the map.

Free-Float
A free-floating turbocharger has no Wastegates device. This turbocharger can't control its own boost levels. For performance applications, the user normally must install an external Wastegates.

GT
The GT designation refers to Garrett's state-of-the-art turbocharger line. GT-series turbos use redesigned bearing systems and modern compressor/turbine aerodynamics. These new compressor and turbine wheels represent huge efficiency improvements over the old T2, T3, T3/T4, T04 products. The net result is increased durability, higher boost, and more engine power over the older T-series product line.

On-Center Turbine Housings
On-center turbine housings refer to an outdated style of turbine housing with a centered turbine inlet pad. The inlet pad is centered on the turbo's axis of rotation instead of being tangentially located. Using an on-center housing will significantly lower the turbine's efficiency. This results in increased turbo lag, more backpressure, lower engine volumetric efficiency, and less overall engine power. No Garrett OEM's use on-center housings.

Pressure Ratio
Ratio of absolute outlet pressure divided by absolute inlet pressure
Example:
Intake manifold pressure (Boost) = 12 psi
Pressure drop, intercooler (DPIntercooler) = 2 psi
Pressure drop, air filter (DPAir Filter) = 0.5 psi
Atmosphere (Atmos) = 14.7 psi at sea level
PR = (Boost + DPIntercooler+ Atmos) / (Atmos-DPAir Filter)
PR = (12 + 2 + 14.7) / (14.7 -.5) = 2.02

Surge Line
The surge region, located on the left-hand side of the compressor map, is an area of flow instability typically caused by compressor inducer stall. The turbo should be sized so that the engine does not operate in the surge range. When turbochargers operate in surge for long periods of time, bearing failures may occur.

Trim
Trim is an area ratio used to describe both turbine and compressor wheels. Trim is calculated using the inducer and exducer diameters.
Example:
Inducer diameter = 88mm
Exducer diameter = 117.5mm
Trim = Inducer2/Exducer2
Trim = 882/117.52 = 56 Trim
As trim is increased, the wheel can support more air/gas flow.

Wastegates
A Wastegated turbocharger includes an integral device to limit turbo boost. This consists of a pneumatic actuator connected to a valve assembly mounted inside the turbine housing. By connecting the pneumatic actuator to boost pressure, the turbo is able to limit its maximum boost output. The net result is increased durability, quicker time to boost, and adjustability of boost.
 
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oh dont get your panties in a bunch, if you multiply the number X2 it gets you close to the turbine size, gt42 is a 83 mm gt55 is a 111 mm(dont know if this works with all of them though) . but at least you know every time if they are talking about exducer or inducer not with dem silly borg warners
 
oh dont get your panties in a bunch, if you multiply the number X2 it gets you close to the turbine size, gt42 is a 83 mm gt55 is a 111 mm(dont know if this works with all of them though) . but at least you know every time if they are talking about exducer or inducer not with dem silly borg warners

Ok, I never realized the x2 thing. I still don't like it... :poke:
 
oh dont get your panties in a bunch, if you multiply the number X2 it gets you close to the turbine size, gt42 is a 83 mm gt55 is a 111 mm(dont know if this works with all of them though) . but at least you know every time if they are talking about exducer or inducer not with dem silly borg warners

Thats a handy trick, never realized that before. I looked at half a dozen turbos on their catalog, and it is +/- 2mm in all the cases I looked at.
 
Holy Shyte!!! If that spewed from your brain and on to the keyboard you are brilliant. Even if that was copy/pasted it is still impressive.. Thank you.

Big questions:
Could you contrast the difference in performance between the II silver 62,64 and the most similar (in output) Garret offerings?

Would the GTX line make much of a difference in my situation?

Does Garret make something that will spool like a II Silver62(or faster) and output like a II Silver64(or better) due to the efficiency of both ball bearings and water cooling?

If someday I get a wild hair up my...... would using one of these as a top in a set of twins be advisable?
 
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Call forced and be done with it. Garrett has a retarded system imo, even though they make good turbos.

Sent from my phone.

I have always had difficulty in taking advice from someone whom benefits from my decision. I am a dealers dream/nightmare. As a consumer it is my job to be vigilant in separating fact from advertising hokum.
 
I have always had difficulty in taking advice from someone whom benefits from my decision. I am a dealers dream/nightmare. As a consumer it is my job to be vigilant in separating fact from advertising hokum.

I've been talking with Jose for a few weeks now, and not once has he tried to sell me anything. He actually talked me into going the cheaper route. He's definitely not in it to screw anyone.
 
Thats a handy trick, never realized that before. I looked at half a dozen turbos on their catalog, and it is +/- 2mm in all the cases I looked at.

Good to know it works for more than those two. I figured it wasn't a mere coincidence but ya never know :lolly:
 
Any thoughts??
Could you contrast the difference in performance between the II silver 62,64 and the most similar (in output) Garret offerings?

Would the GTX line make much of a difference in my situation?

Does Garret make something that will spool like a II Silver62(or faster) and output like a II Silver64(or better) due to the efficiency of both ball bearings and water cooling?

If someday I get a wild hair up my...... would using one of these as a top in a set of twins be advisable?
 
you're looking for a gt4088 or gt4094. They dont have a gtx in the 40 series yet (according to their site) . The 4088 (63.5mm wheel) flows 65-70 lbs a min and the 4094(67mm wheel) flows 80 lbs a min. Both have a 77mm turbine exducer and 73mm inducer. Spool will be slightly better with a ball bearing unit probably 200 rpm faster so the 67 will act like a borg warner 64 With comparable exhaust housings. They will work great as a top charger in a set of twins as long as they are gated properly.

One thing I like about journal bearing turbos from both company's is that they are rebuild-able and as far as I know the garretts only come in t4 but i could be wrong.

Garretts site is one of the best I have ever seen for turbo info TurboByGarrett.com - Turbochargers
 
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Just a slight correction, the GT40's have a 77mm turbine inducer, 78 trim, which works out to a 68mm exducer. The silver turbos from industrial use the turbine with a 73mm exducer, which I believe is around a 81-82mm inducer. So there is still a sizable difference. The GT42's use an 82/75 turbine wheel, which is more comparable to the S400's 83/74 wheel.
 
I must be missing something here..... Wouldn't either the 4088 or the 4094 be very laggy? The 3788 or 3788r wouldn't be a better option? Would the better option be to leave the injectors alone and use the 37 series? With the 40 series will i always be looking for more fuel leading me to bigger injectors and modified pump(s)?

With the 40 series I realize I will need a t4 exhaust manifold would I need gen2 type?
 
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