The NX Dragster is under new management

I can't hardly wait to see how that works for you. Your 100% correct in rpm being 'part' what makes a smaller convertor more efficent, but 5200 rpm for me was not even close to being acceptable and the further you get out there from this in rpm the further you get away from engine effeciency. My only first hand experience with this is with the 12v, In all my past years experience gass racing I mostly used either a 10" or 11" convertor but my operating window was more like 4500-76/7800 not 2k-5200.
In short, do it and lets see. Is that Duramax efficent and happy at 7k+, Banks told me in person at Topeka that they cant keep the rods in thiers past 6800, the very reason the rail has been parked. I just tried to operate my engine in its most useful powerband then match the convertor to it 'common since to me'. I relize the DMax is prob. still eff. a bit higher than the Cummins due to its better flowing heads and V8 configration, but... how much higher?
 
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stock600 said:
I can't hardly wait to see how that works for you. Your 100% correct in rpm being what makes a smaller convertor more efficent, but 5200 rpm for me was not even close to being acceptable and the further you get out there from this in rpm the further you get away from engine effeciency. My only first hand experience with this is with the 12v, In all my past years experience gass racing I mostly used either a 10" or 11" convertor but my operating window was more like 4500-76/7800 not 2k-5200.
In short, do it and lets see. Is that Duramax efficent and happy at 7k+, Banks told me in person at Topeka that they cant keep the rods in thiers past 6800, the very reason the rail has been parked. I just tried to operate my engine in its most useful powerband then match the convertor to it 'common since to me'. I relize the DMax is prob. still eff. a bit higher than the Cummins due to its better flowing heads and V8 configration, but... how much higher?
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Remember a convertor is a TQ muliplyer, when you say you turn 5200, how much power did you drop from your peak at that RPM? RPM is only useful if there is power at that higher RPM, thats where my set up differes from most everyone else. over rev RPM is not going to help the convertor, only hurt.
my engine see's no less than 4500 rpm down track and thats at the bottom of a gear change, my engine loves higher RPM and makes all it's power up there, banks is not turing 6800, maybe 5800 is more like it, but Thats the same as im turning and my engines live! i bet that banks will be running aluminum rods and lighter assemblies and less cubes top make there engines live at that RPM,Thats the only way they will make it all work, i've said it for many years, now i can proove it.

My power band is from 4200-computer RPM limit,(5800) if i had more im sure i could make more power futher up in the RPM's, EFI is working on getting me more RPM's in the software, and that im excited for, because i know the potential.
 
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From what I have heard banks is running a Bosch motorsport ECM and software unlike most who are running a gm ECM with efi. Information on the Bosch stuff is pretty scarce in print and I don't believe most of what I hear till I can see it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bosch motorsport software isn't limiting the rpm like efi.
 
hummin cummins said:
Aren't there a few 12v doing that and even a little higher.
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Turning the RPM is far different than making peak power that high.....believe me a convertor knows when the power falls off....thats when it un couples and the effeicency drops...but what would i know i never owned a fast auto....
 
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hummin cummins said:
Aren't there a few 12v doing that and even a little higher.
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I mentioned CR cause that's what Wade seems to deal with the most I believe, seems like quite a few people think the cummins doesn't make any power in the higher rpms, where in cact we've seen trucks peak at 5500rpm's and hitting over 1k over 5k rpm. 12v's have obviously been spinning over 6k for quite some time and now with the standalones on the CR's and better flowing heads on the way they are starting to turn some serious R's and making power up there as well.

Just great to see the game still constantly changing and making progress.
 
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Bryce418 said:
From what I have heard banks is running a Bosch motorsport ECM and software unlike most who are running a gm ECM with efi. Information on the Bosch stuff is pretty scarce in print and I don't believe most of what I hear till I can see it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bosch motorsport software isn't limiting the rpm like efi.
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The Bosch V8 Motorsport ECM is capable of 8000 RPM right out of the box. It is one hell of a package with all it does but many are not going to be willing or able to afford the $12K price tag to use it. The stock Bosch/GM ECM is pretty much done at 5300 RPM. That doesn't mean the motor is going to make much power up there. When using good old untouched #2 it takes so long to burn and that limits high RPM operation and power up high. Many 12v and common rail guys are playing with special fuel or adding things that make it burn quicker. I've seen cetane ratings as high as 60 on some of the special fuels but stuff from the pump comes in at ~ 40. Bottom line is you need to match the whole package for what your trying to do and any one limit becomes a limit to everything else.
 
DIESEL_POWER said:
Turning the RPM is far different than making peak power that high.....believe me a convertor knows when the power falls off....thats when it un couples and the effeicency drops...but what would i know i never owned a fast auto....
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In your earlier post, you did not say peak hp. You said make power and there are a few that will make power above 5k, we have seen 6200rpm's out of our engine and yes it was not making power there but it was above 5500. And by the way, I did not say you didn't know anything. I thought we were having a conversation.
 
Diesel Tech said:
The Bosch V8 Motorsport ECM is capable of 8000 RPM right out of the box. It is one hell of a package with all it does but many are not going to be willing or able to afford the $12K price tag to use it. The stock Bosch/GM ECM is pretty much done at 5300 RPM. That doesn't mean the motor is going to make much power up there. When using good old untouched #2 it takes so long to burn and that limits high RPM operation and power up high. Many 12v and common rail guys are playing with special fuel or adding things that make it burn quicker. I've seen cetane ratings as high as 60 on some of the special fuels but stuff from the pump comes in at ~ 40. Bottom line is you need to match the whole package for what your trying to do and any one limit becomes a limit to everything else.
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How are you measuring your cetane levels?
 
Just wondering how it can be said a motor is living at 5800 rpm when in fact the whole valvetrain was trashed upon inspection?
Thats not "living" in my dictionary...but what do I know...
 
hummin cummins said:
In your earlier post, you did not say peak hp. You said make power and there are a few that will make power above 5k, we have seen 6200rpm's out of our engine and yes it was not making power there but it was above 5500. And by the way, I did not say you didn't know anything. I thought we were having a conversation.
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i did not take it that way, i was just being sarcastic, thats all.
 
UNBROKEN said:
Just wondering how it can be said a motor is living at 5800 rpm when in fact the whole valvetrain was trashed upon inspection?
Thats not "living" in my dictionary...but what do I know...
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There was no engine failure, so it lived just fine.
Go back and read what i posted, i did not say anywhere that the valve train was trashed....i just noted that it had more wear than it should have, and several of the push rods were tweaked, but the stuff was stock parts, what do you expect? i thought it held up quite well.

The verdict is that the spring psi im running is too much for the valve train and with a non oil pressure feed rocker tip is causing some wear. The wear was equal to what you see on a engine that has about 75-100k on it.

Honestly i could have ran another season the way it was and not thought twice about it.....But i cant leave well enough alone for long anyway.

I do have a permenant fix for the valve train, keeping in mind i plan to have close to another 1000 RPM next year.
 
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i have a convertor that i believe is the sister to the banks convertor in there truck and it would not work with my common rail motor in the camaro 4200 rpm. My roadster runs similiar convertor 5000 rpm 2.50 rear gear and a gearvendor and it works great. then i have a 14 in that stalls 2000 works great with a 500hp motor using an hx40 turbo but will not work with big turbo can not spool. there are a dozzen combos weight, hp,rpm what works for one will not work for all. your dmax should stick with a clutch its there and it will be scary fast looks great good luck.
 
Its noteworthy that the Audi diesels that run in the Le Mans endurance race run in the 3k to 5k. The gas counterparts in the 10-12K.

When a company like Audi with that kind of bank roll behind R&D peaks out at 5k, I'm thinking there just isn't much to be had beyond that.
 
What is the fastest diesel on the planet running ? A clutch. Until somebody outruns him with a converter i would say that its the best way to go....No doubt Scheid is making a lot of horsepower but i think there are others making simular numbers but he is still way ahead of everyone...Food for thought.
 
hummin cummins said:
How are you measuring your cetane levels?
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Take a fuel sample and send it out to the lab and let them tell us. I'm lucky and have a friend that is in the fuel industry and just send it to where he tells me for testing. Have learned a lot from him over the years. In the gas side we took and additive that claimed it would raise octane. Well a little testing showed that it did to a point and that anymore not only lower octane but we were able to lower below the starting point. So I'm very careful when additives are involved anymore.

I'm just on the learning side of the diesel fuel cetane part but were checking and learning. Don't want to reinvent the wheel, but I also don't believe everything I'm told.
 
At the NHRDA finals in Topeka Smittys truck ran 154.xx It had a clutch with a 48re auto behind it. It was crazy to watch it launch.

I think that it is a Scheid set up also. (no sure though).
 
Diesel Tech said:
Take a fuel sample and send it out to the lab and let them tell us. I'm lucky and have a friend that is in the fuel industry and just send it to where he tells me for testing. Have learned a lot from him over the years. In the gas side we took and additive that claimed it would raise octane. Well a little testing showed that it did to a point and that anymore not only lower octane but we were able to lower below the starting point. So I'm very careful when additives are involved anymore.

I'm just on the learning side of the diesel fuel cetane part but were checking and learning. Don't want to reinvent the wheel, but I also don't believe everything I'm told.
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The reason I ask is, we use a dielectric meter to measure our cetane levels. It does not measure the true cetane level of the fuel, but measures the amount of you have raised the cetane level of the fuel. For example; our best pump red fuel here measures 3.76 and with a few oz. of cetane to 5gal. it is raised to 6.? level which is stupid hot fuel, NTPA only allows a 4.9 cetane level. I kinda figured we would be under these rules by now.
 
dieseldragster said:
Here is a history lesson... Banks, (and Greg when he was tied up in that group) claimed to have a planetary drive system for the back of the engine to double crank output speed. That would be the trick to using a standard racing converter. It would cut the torque in half, and make the RPM easier to work with. That was either a rumor, a dream, fact or ???
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I know it can be done, I've seen pictures of the JCB streamliner, and it had an overdrive between the engines and the transmissions. Not sure what the ratio was, but it seemed to make sense to me from a "torque breaks stuff" standpoint. And at Bonny-ville, nobody has to worry about spooling turbos as long as they get there eventually. :Cheer:

As for the NX rail, I think I'd go clutch, or just put the 4L80E in the mustang behind it!
 
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