Twin Vgt's ?

6BT2500

6BT2500

hitman
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
480
Has Anyone Pondered The Idea Of Running Twin He351 Vgt As A Parallel Setup Meaning 2 Manifolds From Say 123 And 456 Similar To A Supra. Ive Heard Of People Talking About This In The Past With Hx35 But They Said The Would Never Spool I Thought With This Vgt Technology It May Be Possible. Just A Thought Thou I Am Probably Wrong
 
Hard to say. You would need some pretty serious control capability.

I would guess you would want some balance valving that would put all six into charger #1 UNTIL you need charger 2, then start feeding it (or both). I believe this has been done long ago in the gasser world.
 
Yeah, it is called a sequential turbo setup. Supra's use it. Two turbos run off the manifold of the inline engine. A valve blocks off the larger turbo until the smaller one has built some boost then opens allowing exhaust flow to both chargers
 
I believe a place called Go Fast Diesel just outside of Indy did it a few years ago. Had two 3 cyl. manifolds and each charger feed into one intercooler. I think they were even 351's. I have tried looking for pictures of them but no luck. I have found his web site but never really pursued talking to him after the initial time I spoke to him at Indy.
 
lol, he did it a few years ago, and his pics say he was going to revolutionize cummins performance!

gee, that kinda died off quietly... again... like every other Cummins parallel twin setup has
 
Compounds using a VGT secondary is much more doable/beneficial set-up IMO I`m really considering throwing an HT60 under my HE451VeTi instead of sending it off for a hybrid S300/holset VGT set-up.

I do however plan to try parallel HE351VEs on a `73 360 with ported Magnum heads in an Intrepid :evil
 
The only way I could even possibly (and I use that term loosely) working is to run some he341ve ( I think thats what it is, slightly smaller compressor than the 351ve). Make a pair of manifolds to mount the turbos, one on top and the other on bottom, run the exhausts out into one pipe or 2 it really doesnt matter, so really the plumbing would be pretty simple. As for oil feeds and drain thats just like a twins setup so thats easy.

The controlls seem complicated but I think it would be simple. Either call Brayden Fleece and see if he can (I bet he can) setup one of his controllers to run 2 turbos instead of just one. If he cant or wont or doesnt have time to do it the just buy 2 seperate turbo controllers and run them both on the motor as seperate setups, it wouldnt be the best or cleanest way to do it but you could at least get up and running.

I think the he341ve has a 56 mm wheel but I cant say for sure since I have never seen one in person, just internet hearsay.

Either way I dont understand why so many people are hung up on doing parrallel turbos on a diesel, its been done several times and published many times and discussed to death, IT DOESNT WORK GOOD ENOUGH TO PURSUE! Twins work so well and unlike a gasser diesels love lots of boost, I bet if a gasser could run big boost the gasser guys would run them also but they cant so they run parrallel turbos.


With all that said I would like to see how well a set of VGT turbos would do although I still think its not gonna work like you would want it to.
 
I have a buddy putting a pair on a 454 right now. He had a small pair of turbos and ran 10.85 with 3.00 gears. It is getting a fast fuel injection instead of the sds injection. The fast has a way of controlling air cylinders to make the vgt work he thinks. It also has two 38 mm tial wastegates and will be running on e85.

I don't see any advantage to parrallel turbos on a diesel, your only going get so much boost.
 
The VGTs can make 15psi of drive pressure at idle, so I am pretty sure it would work, but you'd need to limit boost or spin the engine pretty high to avoid surging. I think two VGTs and nitrous would be a super cool setup for a drag race engine.
 
gwhammy said:
I have a buddy putting a pair on a 454 right now. He had a small pair of turbos and ran 10.85 with 3.00 gears. It is getting a fast fuel injection instead of the sds injection. The fast has a way of controlling air cylinders to make the vgt work he thinks. It also has two 38 mm tial wastegates and will be running on e85.

I don't see any advantage to parrallel turbos on a diesel, your only going get so much boost.
Click to expand...

Dang, he was running two turbos smaller than the 351 on a 454?? Guess I'm gonna have a little overkill with two 351s on a 360... Maybe I could make better use of them taking it to a 408 :evil

JQmile said:
The VGTs can make 15psi of drive pressure at idle, so I am pretty sure it would work, but you'd need to limit boost or spin the engine pretty high to avoid surging. I think two VGTs and nitrous would be a super cool setup for a drag race engine.
Click to expand...

You must have put a gauge on a 6.7? I'm sure the computer limits it a little, but on my set-up if I close the housing all the way on my 451 I can make 22psi of drive pressure at idle... Though I did end up switching my housing to open with drive pressure instead of boost and now I cannot make more than 10psi of drive pressure as the actuator will begin to open the housing at that point :bang
 
nwpadmax said:
Hard to say. You would need some pretty serious control capability.

I would guess you would want some balance valving that would put all six into charger #1 UNTIL you need charger 2, then start feeding it (or both). I believe this has been done long ago in the gasser world.
Click to expand...


The VGT controller we made can run twin HE351's in parallel with no problem.

The HE351 A/R when closed seems very small, I think it could be done, but honestly the piping and BS seem like a pain on an I6...

A V8 makes sense to me, but the I6 will be a pain.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exsyhvw_6Do&feature=related

Our controller is running the VNT on the ground in this video and the one on the truck :D

It's been done already.. They're in boxes on the shelf ;)


:charger::charger::charger::charger::charger::charger:


carcrafter22 said:
The only way I could even possibly (and I use that term loosely) working is to run some he341ve ( I think thats what it is, slightly smaller compressor than the 351ve). Make a pair of manifolds to mount the turbos, one on top and the other on bottom, run the exhausts out into one pipe or 2 it really doesnt matter, so really the plumbing would be pretty simple. As for oil feeds and drain thats just like a twins setup so thats easy.

The controlls seem complicated but I think it would be simple. Either call Brayden Fleece and see if he can (I bet he can) setup one of his controllers to run 2 turbos instead of just one. If he cant or wont or doesnt have time to do it the just buy 2 seperate turbo controllers and run them both on the motor as seperate setups, it wouldnt be the best or cleanest way to do it but you could at least get up and running.

I think the he341ve has a 56 mm wheel but I cant say for sure since I have never seen one in person, just internet hearsay.

Either way I dont understand why so many people are hung up on doing parrallel turbos on a diesel, its been done several times and published many times and discussed to death, IT DOESNT WORK GOOD ENOUGH TO PURSUE! Twins work so well and unlike a gasser diesels love lots of boost, I bet if a gasser could run big boost the gasser guys would run them also but they cant so they run parrallel turbos.


With all that said I would like to see how well a set of VGT turbos would do although I still think its not gonna work like you would want it to.
Click to expand...
 
I would think that compound VGT's would spool insanely fast and have almost zero turbo lag and the sound would make a compound Garrett setup sound like they where sitn idling. I'm surprised with the technology now days that no shop of individual has developed a set yet....
 
carcrafter22 said:
The only way I could even possibly (and I use that term loosely) working is to run some he341ve ( I think thats what it is, slightly smaller compressor than the 351ve). Make a pair of manifolds to mount the turbos, one on top and the other on bottom, run the exhausts out into one pipe or 2 it really doesnt matter, so really the plumbing would be pretty simple. As for oil feeds and drain thats just like a twins setup so thats easy.

The controlls seem complicated but I think it would be simple. Either call Brayden Fleece and see if he can (I bet he can) setup one of his controllers to run 2 turbos instead of just one. If he cant or wont or doesnt have time to do it the just buy 2 seperate turbo controllers and run them both on the motor as seperate setups, it wouldnt be the best or cleanest way to do it but you could at least get up and running.

I think the he341ve has a 56 mm wheel but I cant say for sure since I have never seen one in person, just internet hearsay.

Either way I dont understand why so many people are hung up on doing parrallel turbos on a diesel, its been done several times and published many times and discussed to death, IT DOESNT WORK GOOD ENOUGH TO PURSUE! Twins work so well and unlike a gasser diesels love lots of boost, I bet if a gasser could run big boost the gasser guys would run them also but they cant so they run parrallel turbos.


With all that said I would like to see how well a set of VGT turbos would do although I still think its not gonna work like you would want it to.
Click to expand...

check it out VW TDI Honda Eclypse mr2 jdm Cummins 4bt Holset he341ve VGT Turbo
 
JohhnyFoxtrot said:
Here is some pics of the build and his myspace page that has info on it.
Go Fast Diesel 's Fast Twins buildup begins Photo Album - MySpace Photos


MySpace - Go Fast Diesel - 103 - Male - INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana - myspace.com/gofastdiesel
Click to expand...

I know this guy and when he was building this set up I told him that people way smarter than him had tried this idea years before his revolutionary thinking.*bdh* So after several turbo's, several thousand dollars and six months it was shelved.:doh: I bet with a phone call one could buy this revolutionary technology at a revolutionary scrap price!:bang
 
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