Valve reliefs??

yoshi470

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Jun 30, 2008
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Ok here's the deal guys. Got the head off the truck right now due to a fire ring mishap and noticed i had impressions of the valves and almost every piston, there wasnt any contact or lip on the piston but you could definately tell the tolerances and way too tight. Set up is a colt cam with the bigstick 181/210 grind, head has been decked .005" and fire ringed, standard thickness headgasket. What should i cut my valve reliefs on my pistons? Looking for a little bit of room to grow for future so keep that in mind. Re-using 5 pistons and putting in one new one. A few of the pistons have some knicks in the so i was gonna shave .005" off the top of them to make up for the head being decked and smooth them back out. Any suggestions on valve reliefs i should cut and how it will affect the compression ratio?
 
Do you have a cam gear retainer on that camshaft? If not you need to check and make sure the gear isn't walking off. The head being decked shouldn't matter on clearance because when they do that they should have either sunk the valves that much deeper or trimmed the stem that much.

On the flycut I think Greg Hogue says .050"-.060" is all you should ever need for even his bigger cams.
 
Going by what the camshafts manufacture "SAY'S" is a bad idea, allways check these things before you put the engine back together, OR have a competent engine builder do the work for you.....

Now that the damage is done pull out the pistons and cut 75-100 thou off!!
 
A cam retainer has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Do you have a cam gear retainer on that camshaft? If not you need to check and make sure the gear isn't walking off. The head being decked shouldn't matter on clearance because when they do that they should have either sunk the valves that much deeper or trimmed the stem that much.

On the flycut I think Greg Hogue says .050"-.060" is all you should ever need for even his bigger cams.


I fixed a 12v once by sinking the valves .015" and shimming the valve springs...the valves had been kissing the pistons so lightly that there was no room for carbon but not hard enough to do valve damage.
 
The merrits of a checking spring are priceless. If you have any questions and especially in the still "gray" diesel valve train world I'd swap on a checking spring and put the motor at the points of close P to V, push down on the valve with the checking spring, and know EXACTLY where you P to V clearance is. Could be an expensive gamble otherwise.
 
Each grinder has their own "theories" on engine operation that are the basis for their designs. Typically a better designed camshaft will require less flycut depth than a camshaft with a poor design and slow ramp rates. Due to this fact, it is important to flycut the depth the manufacturer of your camshaft calls for unless you are wanting to go a bit bigger to make room for any changes or upgrades you might want to make in the future. Most of our bigger cams will be covered by .060-.080" flycuts and .120" on our biggest pulling cams.

There are several factors to think about when there has been contact. The first is piston protrusion, which will be altered if there has ever been a rebuild where the block was decked or a non-factory piston has been used. Another factor is the valve face depth. I usually look for .040" +/- on the 24v's and
.55" minimum on the 12v's. Although you may not have ever rebuilt your engine or have had any head work in the past, that doesn't mean that the dealer might not have done warranty work or something might not have been done prior to you owning the truck. For this reason, we put in our instructions that it is up to the customer to verify clearances.

Lastly is installed centerline. Time and position of everything in your engine is super important. This is especially true when talking about injection events or camshaft timing. As was stated earlier, when the gear starts to walk off of the camshaft, this affects camshaft timing and can cause clearance issues. A bolt on retainer for p-pump applications will easily solve this.

Beyond that instance, cam timing can easily vary one or two degrees from engine to engine due to wear or the allowed "variance" in any manufacturing process. Typically this is due to the fact that centerlines easily vary a couple degrees in either direction for oe geartrain.

For this reason if you are running a radical performance camshaft, or have mixed components in your build. It is very important to degree or verify your installed centerlines.

I deal with a lot of builds and am privy to a lot of information from different engine builders. I recently helped a guy out that could not get his performance to the level he wanted. After everything was gone through it was found that his installed centerline was off 9 degrees retarded. BINGO. Especially when mixing parts from different engines, the gears can be off quite a bit. I bet there a more than a few people on here that are not seeing the performance their friends are with the same setup due to variances in cam timing.

THis is why I harp on the fact that camshaft makers need to disclose a lot about the cams events. If you blindly install a camshaft "straight up" how much power are you giving up? Could be a hell of a lot, or it might be only 10 or so, but you might never know.

Sorry for the long winded response, Yoshi I have a few new guys we are working with that will get you where you want to be with only .045" extra clearance. I would just get some .080" cuts to give you room to grow or play with installed centerlines.

Goodluck with your build.

Zach
 
And there you have it, a manufacture that cares about there customers.....:Cheer:

Very rare in todays world.
 
Thanks for the response zach! Im not real familiar with centerlines, thats kind of over my head for the time being. But the camshaft had an offset key on it when it was installed and thats about all i know at this point. Another questions is say if i go with .080" fly cuts how much is that going to affect my compression ratio. I want to keep it as high as can since its still a street truck and plan for it to be for a long time.
 
Think im gonna do .050" reliefs. How is this gonna affect my CR? Running stock HO pistons now.
 
My engine also had slight impressions in the pistons from the valves. I am going to follow this thread very closely
 
So that would put me at 15.4:1 correct? Im guessing this is less than ideal for a DD truck?
 
Sheesh.....if i had someone build me a engine back in the day and upon teardown the pistons were smackin the valves, i'd be smackin the builder...for sure, there is no excuse for this neglect...

You guys need to watch who you have build your engines, unless you have money to throw around....Joe blow down the street who put his engine together with a electric impact is not the one!

These engines need more finness than that, you cant just throw 'em together like that.
 
So that would put me at 15.4:1 correct? Im guessing this is less than ideal for a DD truck?

you "could" run a thinner gasket and fly cut the pistons .050-.055, this would give you cam clearance and keep CR up a bit higher. do your self a favor and check the piston to head clearance and then valve to piston clearance, this will tell you exactly what you can and cant do.
 
So Weston, my pistons are a negative protrusion. -.042, and my valves are hitting. I have the stock thickness head gasket with fire rings. What would my compression be?
 
Yoshi, when you had your head decked .005", did the machine shop set the valves .005" deeper in the head to make up for clearance?
 
I'm worried now that if I lower my CR to 15:1 it will sacrifice streetability as well as HP. Perhaps even haze more. Any thoughts?
 
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