Ve horse power questions

JoeCochrane83

JoeCochrane83

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Oct 9, 2013
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Picking up a totaled 87 f350 with a non intercooled first gen 12v 727 gearvendors combo on Saturday gonna swap everything into my 87 4 door f350 truck is a dually on 6 39" super swampers with a turbo gutless idi right now. It is a beater toy hillbilly truck my gf likes to haul hay with and I use to cut fire wood. Never Owned a ve truck before Gonna put a he351 on it intercool it and want to stuff as much fuel as possible in it. What are the biggest injectors the pump can handle? 5x18s? Can I mod my fuel pin or should I buy one. Will these pumps fuel to 4k with supporting mods? What else can I do to the pump short of putting a 14mm head on it for more power? I'm searching and reading right now but wanted to start a thread to.
 
if you are gonna haul hay with it, you dont want to go bigger than 5x12's. even those will be hot with a 351. the VE pump wont fuel to 4k rpm. i used to run 5x12's with a 62/71/14, and it could get pretty hot pulling a car on a trailer. with it being a non intercooled engine, you can throw a 3200 gsk, ground yer fuel pin a little bit, and put a bigger turbo on it and have a pretty good set up. the non intercooled injectors can make a pretty good amount of power for a stock injector.
 
Have a 02 6 speed and a f350 powerstroke not gonna do anything with this truck but beat on her. It's not a tow rig and will see very few street miles. Just a big fun toy. I'm gonna intercool it and I'm lookin to squeeze all the power I can out of it.
 
Original plan was to swap in a 215 pump but now that I'm seeing decent power off a ve ill prob start researching a 14mm head swap. Just curious what I can make off the stock pump untill then.
 
I run 6x16s. When I had to go back to my super40/35 hybrid for a while I had the pump maxed, but in valet mode. I could hit 1500 degrees by the 3rd gear shift, with stock tires. You could always buy injectors with future plans in mind, but be warned it will get hot.
 
Most people on hot 12mm pumps are in the 400's on fuel, with a good turbo, big injectors, etc. A few trucks are in the 450-480rwhp range.

I made 448rwhp with nitrous and 6x16s on mine when it still had a 727, but the big injectors do haze quite a bit.
 
Jqmile I was hoping you would respond. Truck can haze and smoke all it wants it will be registered and insured but it will hardly see street miles. I'm gonna tow it to glamis on thanks giving take it wheeling in the snow stuff like that. What is consider a hot pump the mods I can do my self or would I have to send it out? I plan on spraying the hell out of her once the supporting mods are done but just trying to figure out where to start.
 
Not sure if I really need more than a built 727 truck will be in the dirt most it's life will never have traction and won't see more than 60 or 70 mph has a gear vendors but ill probably sell it.
 
Sutter1stgen said:
I run 6x16s. When I had to go back to my super40/35 hybrid for a while I had the pump maxed, but in valet mode. I could hit 1500 degrees by the 3rd gear shift, with stock tires. You could always buy injectors with future plans in mind, but be warned it will get hot.
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I put my 6x.016s in a few months before I built my twins.LOL



I still had the old H1C on it and I could peg my 1600* pyro in about 3 seconds flat.
 
rednsilver90 said:
I put my 6x.016s in a few months before I built my twins.LOL



I still had the old H1C on it and I could peg my 1600* pyro in about 3 seconds flat.
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Out of valet mode I was at 1800 by the end of second! With my s366/68 I have a hard time getting over 1400. Scary what a volume increase will do. Lol
 
JoeCochrane83 said:
Jqmile I was hoping you would respond. Truck can haze and smoke all it wants it will be registered and insured but it will hardly see street miles. I'm gonna tow it to glamis on thanks giving take it wheeling in the snow stuff like that. What is consider a hot pump the mods I can do my self or would I have to send it out? I plan on spraying the hell out of her once the supporting mods are done but just trying to figure out where to start.
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I would do 6x16s or 5x18s, a fuel pin, 3200 spring, lift pump (a good one), jump a tooth on timing, and get a low stall converter for the 727 to help trans temps. Goerend and Spec-Rite make steel stator ones for like $900. Expensive but worth it. I'd also invest in an autometer warning gauge for EGT, you're not going to have time to look at a pyro when blasting around dunes. Turbo selection would be based on your pocketbook, but really no 12mm 1st gen needs more than about a 62mm. You can always put a larger turbo under it later for EGT control...or just have the spray on a pressure switch and a bunch of 15 pound bottles in the bed LOL.....

That's about all I can think of for now.

Jason
 
I have a he351 I was gonna slap on it for now. I was looking at 5x18s I know the drive presure will be horrible but I don't wanna buy injectors twice. I'm gonna open the waste gate as big as possible and I'm looking into porting ex housing to let it flow a lil better.
 
The larger the injectors on the truck...... the less drivable they are and the more like "crap" (my terminology) they drive.

Also....one has to keep in mind that the pump is going to only move so much fuel. Meaning, one will gain egt and smoke with going really big on injectors and give the appearance of more fuel, when in reality one is just turning the fuel into more unburnable fuel and lowering injection pressure.


What will happen is..........you will literally start losing power with an he351cw when you go too large on injectors. I've been there, done that.


IMO..... a 12mm ve shouldn't have injectors larger than about 80lpm (no matter how much air flow). An 80lpm injector is about a 5x17 in size.

An he351cw........no more than about 55lpm max.
 
He351 will end up a top turbo with a large external waste gate I understand 5x 18s ate way to much fuel for it but I don't wanna buy injectors twice. If you think the ve won't be able to atomize fuel through 5x18s than I will go smaller. But I want to go with the largest injector I can support with a 12mm pump. Thanks for that info what about a 6x16 will the smaller holes be enough to help atomize fuel.
 
JQmile said:
I would do 6x16s or 5x18s, a fuel pin, 3200 spring, lift pump (a good one), jump a tooth on timing, and get a low stall converter for the 727 to help trans temps. Goerend and Spec-Rite make steel stator ones for like $900. Expensive but worth it. I'd also invest in an autometer warning gauge for EGT, you're not going to have time to look at a pyro when blasting around dunes. Turbo selection would be based on your pocketbook, but really no 12mm 1st gen needs more than about a 62mm. You can always put a larger turbo under it later for EGT control...or just have the spray on a pressure switch and a bunch of 15 pound bottles in the bed LOL.....

That's about all I can think of for now.

Jason
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This was pretty much my exact idea just with a 351 and large external waste gate. Plan is to later on slap a s400 under it and dump the waste gate into the hot pipe. Wana run 2 stages of spray a real small shot on a full throttle switch for getting out of trouble quick situation and than as much as it takes to eat all the fuel up on a hopps switch. Was thinking of linking a couple 10lb bottles together I can get them filled out there.
 
Jqmile as far as your 972 hp number was that a one time deal of running a garden hose of spray with out a jets in or have you ran the truck that hard multiple times?
 
The 6 hole injectors make decent power..........but they are INCREDIBLY dirty for what they are. They have a poor pintle design.

But, how do you want to make your power?

A large 5x18 injector will make slightly more power than let's say a 5x15ish size stick that is extrude honed out WITH NITROUS. But you will most likely make less power on fuel only with the 5x18.
 
Do you want a driveable, reliable rig that has power to pull and not cook itself? or do you want a hot burnin, power makin, dirty, not so reliable rig? Trust me its hard to have both. If it were me and I was planning on just a driver/tow truck with enough power to have some fun I'd go with a lp lift pump, tuned VE pump with ground pin, 5x14 injectors, the HE351 turbo like you mentioned, intercooler would definately help, and a built trans to get the power to the ground and you would be amazed what that setup would do. I know a guy with pretty much that setup in a 78 ford crew with an nv4500 and it will tow like no tomorrow and also dynoed around 370hp. Once you go past that, driveability and reliability slowly go out the window. But like I said, all depends on what you want
 
As mentioned above this truck will never see street use. I have a reliable 6spd tow rig that is in the 450 to 500hp range. I am building this to squeeeze as much dirty hot unreliable hp out of it as I can than I'm gonna clean it up with nitrous. It is a offroad toy only.
 
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