12v ZF6 twin disc clearance w/pics

mech2161

mech2161

I have a secret.
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Jan 15, 2007
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These pictures are from a conversion I'm re-doing. The pics show what was wrong and what is being done.

Clearances were not checked.

conversion2_014-450x350.jpg

conversion2_011-450x350.jpg

conversion2_013-450x350.jpg

conversion2_009-450x350.jpg


Bearing retainer shoved against clutch disk

conversion2_019-450x350.jpg


Remove .125 for clearance

conversion2_021-450x350.jpg

conversion2_023-450x350.jpg


Bore scope showing clearance between bearing
retainer and clutch disc

conversion2_025-450x350.jpg


Retainer bolt must be ground to clear back side of
clutch release fork

conversion2_026-450x350.jpg


Input bearing housing

conversion2_027-450x350.jpg


Even with the 10mm spacer the input shaft is only in the pilot bearing .325. This is why things are so tight in the clutch.

conversion2_020.jpg
 
Who's adapter plate?

I ran into the same problem when I put my first DD in. South Bend forgot to tell me that you need to cut 1/2" or so off of the sleeve you pictured. I started my truck up and the 2nd clutch disc welded itself right to the sleeve.

It was a real pain in the ass to get apart.
 
That is a FordCummis adapter. I don't think it would be any different with any other. It has to be that close to get the input in the pilot bearing. I called SB today and told them again to ship longer bolts for the fly wheel on the conversion kits.
 
Interesting. I am also running a FordCummins adapter and had much more of my input shaft into the bearing than .325".

Did this particular truck have a starter spacer to move the starter towards the front of the truck 1/8" or so?

Are the retaining bolts you said have to be ground down the 3 that hold the input shaft sleeve in place?
 
texascadillac42 said:
Interesting. I am also running a FordCummins adapter and had much more of my input shaft into the bearing than .325".

Mine is the same. I do pull the pilot bearing about .060 to gain some support.

Did this particular truck have a starter spacer to move the starter towards the front of the truck 1/8" or so?

It's in the kit but not used. Also a plate to go between the block and the adapter plate.

Are the retaining bolts you said have to be ground down the 3 that hold the input shaft sleeve in place?
Click to expand...

Yes, the top bolt and the corner on the (case) bearing housing. Without grinding for clearance the t-bearing rides the pressure plate.
 
Same probs except i needed a lot more work the retainer was ruined and so was the clutch pretty sure its a fordcummins adapter

edit mines a zf5 not 6
 
I'm going to send the pics to Mansel, maybe they will change the directions for the conversion clutch.
 
I wonder what is different between my truck and the one you are working on because without the 1/8" spacer plate for the starter, my starter gear never disengages from the ring gear on the flywheel. With the spacer it works perfectly.

I have the spacer between my crank and flywheel just as you have pictured.

And I have no evidence of the clutch release fork hitting the bolts. In my experiences with ZF6s and Fords, the throwout bearing is always against the pressure plate just a little, or was this one a real PITA to get slave cylinder in and out?
 
mech2161 said:
I'm going to send the pics to Mansel, maybe they will change the directions for the conversion clutch.
Click to expand...

Let's hope so. They definitely need better instructions in all their clutch kits. Even on a stock 06 Dodge application, they neglected to tell me to grind the inside webbing of the bellhousing to clearance for a DD clutch...

After I called and asked them about it they said "Oh yea, sometimes you have to do that, we forgot to tell you"

I love SBC, great customer service, really friendly and helpful, but there have been several times when they have forgotten little things like that. Hopefully some pics will encourage them to add a note in their installation instructions.
 
texascadillac42 said:
I wonder what is different between my truck and the one you are working on because without the 1/8" spacer plate for the starter, my starter gear never disengages from the ring gear on the flywheel. With the spacer it works perfectly.

I have the spacer between my crank and flywheel just as you have pictured.

And I have no evidence of the clutch release fork hitting the bolts. In my experiences with ZF6s and Fords, the throwout bearing is always against the pressure plate just a little, or was this one a real PITA to get slave cylinder in and out?
Click to expand...

I don't know if there is a difference in the starter nose or what the difference would be. There needs to be some clearance at the t-bearing. As the clutch wears the fingers on the pressure plate raise.
 
How far can you push the clutch release fork in before the throwout bearing makes contact with the pressure plate?

I'm pretty sure that with the slave cylinder installed, the clutch release fork cannot go back far enough to make contact with those bolts.
 
texascadillac42 said:
How far can you push the clutch release fork in before the throwout bearing makes contact with the pressure plate?

You can't, It's against it when bolted together until you clearance the areas needed.

I'm pretty sure that with the slave cylinder installed, the clutch release fork cannot go back far enough to make contact with those bolts.
Click to expand...

I'll check it tomorrow and make sure, but I think it can. I should be able to get a pic through the vents in the bell housing. I had to do the same on mine.
 
We definitely have something different between our two setups because I have at least 1" of free play I can push the clutch fork in and pull it back when everything is bolted up, with the slave cylinder out of course.

So on this truck I assume trying to get the slave cylinder in or out required alot of force to lock or unlock it into the bellhousing? Like it was pushing on the pressure plate hard enough to begin pushing the pressure plate in?
 
The slave cyl was out when I got it. Everything appears the same as when I did mine. Is your release fork original? The one in it was bent a little. I had a new one on hand to start with.
 
I have the "updated" one from Ford, I put it in when I did my swap several years ago.

After looking at the picture of the bellhousing, it looks like the heads of the 3 bolts holding the sleeve on are taller or thicker than the ones I have. I will check on this tomorrow, I have a spare ZF6 sitting in the shed. I seem to remember my bolt heads being about half that thickness

Even with the free play in my clutch fork when the slave is out, its a bit of a push to get the slave in, which leads me to believe the throwout bearing is up against the pressure plate at this point. I can't imagine trying to get a slave cylinder in if there is 0 free play in the fork when things are assembled.
 
The slave goes in more than far enough to bottom out the fork.
 
FordCummins told me that running that spacer plate between the block and adapter was necessary. Did they tell you something different, or did you leave it out just to get more input shaft engagement into the pilot bearing?
 
They never said one way or another. With that spacer you have less than 1/4" input in the pilot bearing. I may have to on this one and pull the pilot bearing a little more.
 
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