any 1 install arp headstuds?

H

highroller54

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Mar 21, 2008
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I was just wondering if you have any tips, I dont mean the acuall head re&re, just the installing of the studs. Do they need the arp sealer? Any tricks I should know? Thanks guys!
 
Run them in till they are bottomed out, then back them off a 1/4 turn. use plenty of moly lube on both sides of the washer. Tq in 3 steps. And have fun with the 245ft lbs... :kick:
 
Make sure you have a long torque wrench. Short ones suck for the last tq. (cheater pipes can affect the tq applied so not recommended.)
 
The 245ft lbs sucks bad. I am doing studs as we speak. Im pulling the motor to do them. The only thing I always hate when doing them is 245ft lbs

NO PRY BAR

also make sure your heads are flat. You may have to deck them.6.0's are notoroius for this
 
I'm confused why a cheater bar for more leverage changes the torque value. Torque's torque. 10 pounds at 1 foot is the same thing as 5 pounds at 2 feet, or 1 pound at 10 feet. Still the same thing.
 
It is about angles and pivot points. I have a hard time explaining it, but it is not a good idea.

Say you have a large bar that has a larger diameter than the handle (like what we all use). You slide the cheater bar over the handle of the torque wrench. When you start pulling or tightening the bar will pivot on the handle. This sometimes causes the pulling angle to change (i.e. not pulling straight anymore but slightly upwards or downwards) which throws the torque wrench off.

Do you get that or do you want me to try explaining it differently?
 
That is a tricky and highly debated question. Some say yes others say no.

There is a couple of people that have done it, but in my opinion, to do it right, yes. You need to either lift the cab off or pull the engine.
 
hpprose said:
It is about angles and pivot points. I have a hard time explaining it, but it is not a good idea.

Say you have a large bar that has a larger diameter than the handle (like what we all use). You slide the cheater bar over the handle of the torque wrench. When you start pulling or tightening the bar will pivot on the handle. This sometimes causes the pulling angle to change (i.e. not pulling straight anymore but slightly upwards or downwards) which throws the torque wrench off.

Do you get that or do you want me to try explaining it differently?
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but mathematically it doesn't make any sense. The worst that would happen is a slight reduction in applied torque since the moment arm becomes a little shorter (and I mean a little like half an inch tops), But it makes no difference because your click or beam wrench torque measurement is taken at the end, not an average of the lever. And as far as up and down torque goes, it still doesn't matter because there's no appreciable moment arm for the torque to work over. Even if there was, that would in effect state that the weight of the bolt, and any tooling would somehow affect the applied torque. I suppose if you put enough off axis torque to it you could bend the bolt or stud but you'd have to be a complete idiot to do that.

Now what you said about using a larger diameter tube over the wrench will cause the moment arm to shorten because you just created a little triangle. The true moment arm is now the length from your hand to the bolt head. But, since the force is applied through the wrench, it doesn't matter. The only effect is a slightly less efficient wrench, by comparison to one that is the same overall length as the combination, but doesn't have the little bend in it.

This is the same reason you can use a crows foot wrench to put bolts on, and depending which of the 4 positions you use, 1 will help you, 1 will really hurt you, and the other 2 aren't as good as the first, but not as bad as the second.

Might just be easier to for me to draw it and make a pdf.... not trying to be a jerk, but it really doesn't matter.
 
Since I didn't make myself clear to my own satifcation, and the manufacturing shop pulled me off for a question... my edit time timed out... here's what I meant to say...

hpprose said:
It is about angles and pivot points. I have a hard time explaining it, but it is not a good idea.

Say you have a large bar that has a larger diameter than the handle (like what we all use). You slide the cheater bar over the handle of the torque wrench. When you start pulling or tightening the bar will pivot on the handle. This sometimes causes the pulling angle to change (i.e. not pulling straight anymore but slightly upwards or downwards) which throws the torque wrench off.

Do you get that or do you want me to try explaining it differently?
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but mathematically it doesn't make any sense. The worst that would happen is a slight reduction in applied torque (vs a perfectly straight bar) since the moment arm becomes a little shorter (and I mean a little like half an inch tops). Now since you have an extra foot or two of leverage, your applied force YOU have to exert is lower. But it makes no difference because your click or beam wrench torque measurement is taken at the end, not an average of the lever. So as far as the wrench is concerned, HE-Man's on the other end.

And as far as up and down torque goes, it still doesn't matter because there's no appreciable moment arm for the torque to work over. Even if there was, that would in effect state that the weight of the bolt, and any tooling would somehow affect the applied torque. I suppose if you put enough off axis torque to it you could bend the bolt or stud but you'd have to be a complete idiot to do that.

Now what you said about using a larger diameter tube over the wrench will cause the moment arm to shorten because you just created a little triangle. The true moment arm is now the length from your hand to the bolt head. But, since the force is applied through the wrench, it doesn't matter. The only effect is a slightly less efficient wrench, by comparison to one that is the same overall length as the combination, but doesn't have the little bend in it.

Probably the bigger question would be, is the bolt dry, or lubed with the proper oil (10wt oil just enough to wet the threads) to get an accurate torque measurement? Dry is a big no-no, plain jane motor oil now is the standard.

This is the same reason you can use a crows foot wrench to put bolts on, and depending which of the 4 positions you use, 1 will help you, 1 will really hurt you, and the other 2 aren't as good as the first, but not as bad as the second.

Might just be easier to for me to draw it and make a pdf.... not trying to be a jerk, but it really doesn't matter.
 
Good link with lots of good info. I still stand by what I said about cheater bars.

I get what kleetus is saying, and I agree for the most part.

But from what I have seen and know, I would not recommend anyone using them. I have seen people pull at odd angles which throws off the clicking action of the torque wrench and the bolts get over tightened.

Now I don't know by how much, I'm not a person that pulls out a micrometer, but I know the tq is off by feel when I have gone back to check.
 
geeride said:
I always thought it was a no no to use a "cheater bar" but a quick search and I found this...



http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_3.htm
Click to expand...

Cheater bar and extension are two different animals... cheater bar reduces the torque we have to apply to get whatever number of torque we're looking for, and extension just adds length to the head of the tool for recessed bolts or clearance in tight areas.

I don't know that I agree that extensions are okay. Anybody ever twist an allen wrench, and not have the bolt move? If you did use one, because sometimes you just have to, I'd use the shortest and heaviest one I could find, ie, rated for impact wrenches.
 
hpprose said:
Good link with lots of good info. I still stand by what I said about cheater bars.

I get what kleetus is saying, and I agree for the most part.

But from what I have seen and know, I would not recommend anyone using them. I have seen people pull at odd angles which throws off the clicking action of the torque wrench and the bolts get over tightened.

Now I don't know by how much, I'm not a person that pulls out a micrometer, but I know the tq is off by feel when I have gone back to check.
Click to expand...

And I still stand by what I say as well. But you are correct, if you're pulling at some God forsaken angle:
1, you're going to be off, with or without a cheater,
2, you have no business screwing with a motor in the first place, in which case,
3, all bets are off.

Maybe we can agree to disagree, but I've never had anything come apart on me, and I've done motors, steam engines and construction equipment. To each his own.

*bdh*
 
Steam Engines.

I have never had one of them apart before. How hard are they to work on?
 
Not too brutal, but gasketing and flatness are key for making anything work right. And, if you're making new parts, you have to realize the effects of expansion. Metal at 350-400 degrees isn't the same size at room temperature!

Boilers are a trick. I'm no where near good enough a welder to play with them...

Uh... let's steer a bit to the right here... like back on the subject path...:doh:
 
I installed a set of used studs in my 03. IN THE TRUCK ! The cab height needed to remove the bolts on the passenger side is a foot or better. Not the most fun I've ever had !! Best would be to REMOVE it like the dealer if possible. My question is , Everyone is talking 245 ! I had no instructions and went to 185 !? Am I going to survive , or should I disassemble and retorque ?
 
Don't take a chance, open it up and torque to 245 or at some point you will wish you had. 6.0s really need it or you run the risk of lifting the heads. My studs were done without lifting the cab. I suppose once you have the routine down it would be same or easier than pulling the cab with better end results. I do not think 6.0 cabs were meant to be lifted and have seen more than a couple that ended up poorly aligned. I think the two worst parts of not pulling the cab are removing the heater box(please don't cut or drill holes in it)and wrestling the heavy a** heads out and in.
 
Basic instructions for installation:

1. Make sure all holes are clean of oil and debris
2. Screw stud into the block – SNUG, not tight
3. Install head gaskets
4. Install heads
5. Lube threads of bolts and nuts AND the washers with supplied ARP lube. Ensure surface where washer touches the head and where washer touches the nut are lubed well. Very important step to ensure torque readings are accurate.
6. Tighten nuts as you would for factory bolts – same sequence. Torque to 135 ft lbs (I think that’s the factory spec)
7. Following the factory sequence, re-torque nuts to 180 ft lbs
8. Following the factory sequence, re-torque nuts to 200 ft lbs
9. Following the factory sequence, re-torque nuts to 220 ft lbs
10. Following the factory sequence, re-torque nuts to 230 ft lbs
11. Following the factory sequence, re-torque nuts to 245 ft lbs


Some people say you can do it in 3 steps (something like 135. 185, then 245) but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

--Snake
 
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