ARP 625's or Standards?

[Big Swole]

Any compensation for the guinea pig???

Needs to be said man, that shop made a mess of your truck, and I'd bet a bag of marbles it would still be running if it had those 625's to start with.

Whoa man!! I pretty positive that bolts or studs had Nothing to do with my rod coming out!!

Stock bolts were holding Very well...my HG was Perfect when I pulled the head!! Then we found the freeze plug out..

The freeze plug / coolant in oil or just the fact that CR rods suck has to be the blame...

As for guinea pig on the decompression, I think it worked fine and my truck obviously hauled A$$ but it was a bit lazy right off idle...Looking forward to a stock compression motor this go round!!

 

[TheBigNasty]

Def stick with stock compression and gasket, just get better rods and 625's and call it good. Wish I had done it to mine now. O-rings are fine for a 12-24v but CR's not so much...

 

[Big Swole]

Def stick with stock compression and gasket, just get better rods and 625's and call it good. Wish I had done it to mine now. O-rings are fine for a 12-24v but CR's not so much...

Got the 625's now but as far as using the stock gasket, well after I buy a used motor and my head is not damaged I'll probably put it back on....I won't be able to afford to have that head done again with oversized seats......

Who knows, I guess I could try to use the whole thing and just swap my studs in one by one....I'd just worry about the stock seats falling...





Sorry for the little Hi-jack on the ARP thread man!!

 

[TTR 21]

Got the 625's now but as far as using the stock gasket, well after I buy a used motor and my head is not damaged I'll probably put it back on....I won't be able to afford to have that head done again with oversized seats......

Who knows, I guess I could try to use the whole thing and just swap my studs in one by one....I'd just worry about the stock seats falling...





Sorry for the little Hi-jack on the ARP thread man!!

Not to worry man! All good info here. i can never get enough of it.

 

[tony597fitter]

Any compensation for the guinea pig???

Needs to be said man, that shop made a mess of your truck, and I'd bet a bag of marbles it would still be running if it had those 625's to start with.

Wow, thats a pretty BOLD statement.
Considering Jeff is one of the originators of Cummins performance.

The trucks that have come out of Garmons shop in my eyes are some of the finest Cummins truck around.

 

[COMP461]

Its very important that you not torque the ARP 625’s to beyond the recommended spec;s of 150 ft lbs, or the ARP 2000 to more then the spec;s of 125 ft lbs

I know that a lot of people recommend these big numbers but the engineers at ARP know what the yield points are for the fasteners that they manufactor .

I see a lot of these wives tales on here and I wind up helping a lot of people fix they results, of not following the instructions to the letter.

The ARP 2000 material Head stud kits are sufficient to hold well over 1000 hp if the tuning is correct. Want a little insurance and the ARP custom New Age 625’s are the ticket . This works well with the stock MLM gasket with is the best deal if you have a CR dodge.


1st only torque when the engine is cold period

2nd use ARP lube on the threads of the stud, the inside of the nut , and both sides of the washer.

3rd torque and un torque the nut twice before a final torque , this is all that is necessary to burnish the black oxide off the inside of the nuts , this give a few % more clamping force.


I’ve sold over 200 sets of 625’s in the past 4 years , and never have had a problem that didn’t trace back to over torqueing

 

[cbtoyz]

Def stick with stock compression and gasket, just get better rods and 625's and call it good. Wish I had done it to mine now. O-rings are fine for a 12-24v but CR's not so much...

O'rings work great for a CR too. You just have to modify a 12v gasket to match the passages. Before I o'ringed my head I had a hell of a time blowing HG. O-rings FTW!

 

[Joesixpack]

Wow, thats a pretty BOLD statement.
Considering Jeff is one of the originators of Cummins performance.

The trucks that have come out of Garmons shop in my eyes are some of the finest Cummins truck around.

No question, Wouldn't David's experience leave a sour taste?

O'rings work great for a CR too. You just have to modify a 12v gasket to match the passages. Before I o'ringed my head I had a hell of a time blowing HG. O-rings FTW!

Fellow that goes by W1cked on here went back to the regular MLS gasket, 625's and he puts as much nawz to it as anyone, think to the tune of 1300hp or so.

Thing with the MLS though, head and deck need to be super flat. If its surfaced careful attention needs to be given to RA.

 

[morkable]

No matter which studs you use, you must have lots and lots of lube. I usually go through most of a tube everytime I install a set of studs

 

[jlibert]

625's, anti-seize, 160 ft/lbs, FTW.

 

[COMP461]

625's, anti-seize, 160 ft/lbs, FTW.

And your qualified to overrules ARP’s engineers, 150 is a around 85% of predicted yield of this fastener.

Yield means that you permently stretch the stud and make it less capable of developing advertised clamping load.


Can you take a given fastner system above its suggested torque spec’s to say 90 or 95 % of predicted yield , sure, and surprisingly this is just a few ft pounds more on a well calibrated torque wrench.


Do some people get away with taking a fastener to a higher yield and developing more clamping force , sure , predicted yield is just that predicted.

Problem is when you do , and much more, is the case in most of the wives tales I've see on this and other forums , you in uncharted territory, and when the fastener fails , it usually get's a thread.

When this happens , I usual step in, to find out the facts , and 99% of the times its operator error.
When a problem happens 99% of the time , I still get ARP to help out . That is why I get on everyone of these threads and tell people to straight unabashed facts

and anti seize is not ARP lube and will not give the predicted results
I have the new ARP super Lube in packs and pints if you need it


Follow the instructions

 

[SINNER]

I would NEVER use anti-seize to lubricate a fastener. I tried it on 2 studs (A-1 h-11's on a 6.0) on a blown engine to see if there was a difference and at 175 ft. lbs it scored the washer. The 1's with the arp lube were perfect.

 

[Howling]

Lube on both ends of the stud or oil on the end that goes in the block and lube on the nut end?

I have heard it both ways.

 

[COMP461]

use just plan engine oil on the block end of the stud.
Do not install the stud tight in the block, but run it down to the bottom and back it off a very slight amount.

use the lube on the threads , nut and both sides of the washer

 

[TheBigNasty]

If you must have an o-ringed CR then at least get the head decked to ensure the injectors stay in the bowls. If you look at most of the high Hp CR's they all use stock with 625 or fire ringed mls with 625's

 

[Kick Start]

What do you guys think is so much better about the high torque specs?
I called arp the other day and they said after first torque let the truck warm up and then cool back down for re torque, back the nut off aswell and the re torque to specs.

 

[cbtoyz]

If you must have an o-ringed CR then at least get the head decked to ensure the injectors stay in the bowls. If you look at most of the high Hp CR's they all use stock with 625 or fire ringed mls with 625's

Indeed the head should be surfaced prior to o'ringing. I may not be a HIGH HP guy, and I'm not spraying nawz. But my set up works for me, whereas the MLS gasket didn't. I'm glad people can spray the piss out of there truck and make Fantastic numbers on studs and MLS, I can't, so I won't. :stab:

 

[jlibert]

And your qualified to overrules ARP’s engineers, 150 is a around 85% of predicted yield of this fastener.




Follow the instructions

Ok, so 160 is 90% of predicted yield. I live life on the edge. lol.

sissy.:cheer:

 

[COMP461]

no its right at 100% of predicted yield , you might get away with it , and you might not , and thats only if your have a really good torque wrench

Myself and ARP recomend 150# and if you can't keep the head on there , learn to tune better.

I do a lot of developement work with the guys there , and I hear about everyone that has a problem, and 99% are not the fault of the fastner

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

We run about 5lbs of nx per pass with stock hg and arp2000s and have been for two years(plus extreme daily driving and towing). No problems yet. Studs have been in for about three years i guess. I've installed several sets of the 2000s and have never over torqued them, never had any problems at all so far. So i'm with greg, 2000s are plenty, but if you like the extra insurance, go with 625s.