Automatic vs Manual

SHughes said:
And for the record...the FASTEST and QUICKEST gas or diesel cars are manuals...fully race prepped and engineered manual transmission.
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A Lenco with a converter isnt exactly a manual.... Hell, a Lenco with a clutch is no more a manual than an auto that is shifted manually.
There is nothing out there stupid fast that requires the driver to stab a clutch pedal to change gears...period.
 
zstroken said:
Few extra clutches in the forward?
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I found the inference as to more than one extra interesting too...

I also find it interesting that the forward clutch pack would be burning up rather than just breaking the input like most people do. Must be one strong input shaft.
 
I have broken a output, but never a input or intermediate. They are of course billet, but never broken.
 
Big Blue24 said:
For the record, I hate my 5 speed manual and wish I had a 47rh in my daily driver 99'.

Part of my problem is the clutch is dragging so I have to grind my way into gear when I'm at a stop light. With the Valair 13" organic, it was pleasant to drive, just couldn't quite hold 499 to wheels at the drag strip. Now I wish I would have left that setup alone. Gonna have to find an auto to build and swap or fork out $$$ for a new valair 13" Organic clutch.
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And you just hit the nail on the head. Precisely what I was describing before.

You either have a nice shifting clutch that won't hold, or a strong clutch that will hold and you replace the trans about every oil change if you actually expect to haul ass and force it into gear all the time.

And now I run an auto. Just as it sounds like you will.
 
A buddy of mine is prime example of this...

24v with NV4500 behind it, he wants it to be a race car, and he pays for it. He has pulled his tranny to replace input shafts, synchros, gears, and clutches 32 times in the past year. I am not exaggerating, there are a few other members here that know him. He's gotten good at it, he can replace an input shaft in that truck and have it back on the road in about 3 hours. Of course none of the bolts are tight, he knows every size by memory, and I'm sure that half the bolts are missing by now.
 
There's nothing like max boost on every shift, even when pulling a sled!
 
Look at it this way if you want to drag race with a manual like I'm doing you'll never have to have a roll cage :hehe:.
 
Charles said:
Get yourself a decent auto?


Or did you forget there are vehicles in excess of 3000hp doing just fine with autos, pass after pass? Maybe run a slider in front of an auto if your setup is taking so much time in pre-stage to spool that it's murdering the converter before the tree even comes down. I believe Mr Shied has done just that with his "Danco". Slider in front of Lenco planetaries. The evil brother to the bruno drive.

On the flipside.... if I was as convinced that manuals are better as some in this thread seem to, can any of you point me toward the manual trans option you could use in something like this?

caterpiller_797b_off_highway_dump_truck.jpg
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Charles, I thought you were a fairly smart guy. The transmission in the truck above wont fit between the frame rails in our truck and the coil overs don't like the weight either!:bang :hehe: Seriously, I was just stirring the pot! I would love to have a danco, lenco or something like it, but coming up with jack to do the danco just takes a while! So it will have to sit until I do.
 
mondtster said:
Morkable, have you been having forward (rear) clutch pack or front (direct) clutch pack issues? How many clutches in the pack? Just curious is all...



Charles alluded to what I was referring to.

From what I've seen, the diesel trans and converter builders and the customers seem to have a tendency to take a different approach to transmission/driveline selection and assembly than the tried and true methods used by others. Some of it I understand and some of it makes no sense to me. It might be worth looking at what other race teams are using/doing that are racing with more conventional platforms if you haven't already done that.

What trans are you running and what parts are breaking so quickly?
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We are way north of a 1000hp on fuel and we are running a 47re. I am not going to mention the builder because I am very happy with all of their efforts to try and cure the problems, but it has just become to uneconomical to keep shipping converters every week and rebuilding the unit every time you made a pass. Plus the last pass we made with it last season, the tranny fluid boiled out the dipstick tube and shot out the onto the exhaust manifold, catching the engine bay on fire at 100+mph at the 600ft mark.
as far as breaking parts there was none, but we would melt the linings off the converter and literally weld the forward and OD clutches together. I had a 4 row 18x24 staab oil cooler on it with a 18'' spahl fan. Oh and we could spool in under 15 sec.
 
Just so you know, NHRA rules say that you are supposed to have a locking dipstick after I think it is 10.99 somewheres around there. I was having a problem with welding the forwards real bad, 3 passes and done.. and I could spool in like 2 or 3 seconds. But since we did these new clutch baskets and extra clutches, it has been holding real nice. Going to really push it some this year, hopefully by Edmonton we will have all the other gremlins out of the truck and can really see what it will do
 
morkable said:
Just so you know, NHRA rules say that you are supposed to have a locking dipstick after I think it is 10.99 somewheres around there. I was having a problem with welding the forwards real bad, 3 passes and done.. and I could spool in like 2 or 3 seconds. But since we did these new clutch baskets and extra clutches, it has been holding real nice. Going to really push it some this year, hopefully by Edmonton we will have all the other gremlins out of the truck and can really see what it will do
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I did have one on it. It was a pressure style lock and pushed it out of the tube 10 in.:bang
 
hummin cummins said:
We are way north of a 1000hp on fuel and we are running a 47re. I am not going to mention the builder because I am very happy with all of their efforts to try and cure the problems, but it has just become to uneconomical to keep shipping converters every week and rebuilding the unit every time you made a pass. Plus the last pass we made with it last season, the tranny fluid boiled out the dipstick tube and shot out the onto the exhaust manifold, catching the engine bay on fire at 100+mph at the 600ft mark.
as far as breaking parts there was none, but we would melt the linings off the converter and literally weld the forward and OD clutches together. I had a 4 row 18x24 staab oil cooler on it with a 18'' spahl fan. Oh and we could spool in under 15 sec.
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This guy's response is something along the lines of... " 1000 whole hp..???"

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jArqhYnN7to[/MEDIA]



I wonder what his dipstick tube must have been doing if yours was doing everything mentioned above?

LOL
 
You sir are a wealth of information! Unfortunately none of it helpful.:poke: Can I send you my transmission and have you make it work for me? :hehe: I am sure you could get a lot of business from others as well. I am not the first nor will I be the last to have these problems with an automatic behind a diesel and while your fixing the tranny you can fix the dipstick too. Please post your shipping address, I already have the name: Sir Charles Fix Alot!:bow:LOL
 
hummin cummins said:
You sir are a wealth of information! Unfortunately none of it helpful.:poke: Can I send you my transmission and have you make it work for me? :hehe: I am sure you could get a lot of business from others as well. I am not the first nor will I be the last to have these problems with an automatic behind a diesel and while your fixing the tranny you can fix the dipstick too. Please post your shipping address, I already have the name: Sir Charles Fix Alot!:bow:LOL
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I would love to hear your rationalization as to why guys can run 3000+hp through brunos and slider driven lencos, yet your 1000+hp diesel is a completely uncontrollable force of nature.

If I had to venture a guess I'd say you're destroying the converter at the line trying to spool and the engine power has little to do with the problem.

And go easy on all the laughing emoticons. All the gasser guys making pass after pass after pass that see guys like you unable to keep transmissions together for a single pass at 1/3 the power output are running low on em as it is.


If your diesel really is a force of God that no trans can hold, then maybe you'd be interested in a good ole sintered iron multidisc. If you F that one up you can then not only laugh at guys making 3000 to 4000hp, but also the ones making 7000 or more.

And I'm getting the feeling you just might be able to kill one of those as well. You do seem to have a knack for it.

In my best "gas station guy from Tommy Boy" voice...

Get yourself a better trans.

Oh wait, wasn't that the first thing I suggested?


Better yet. Stuff what you're working with into a 10.5 outlaw car if you want to see how to properly afukingnihilate one in under a sec.

:smirk:



On Edit:

I would suggest more reading, less blowing the same old pickup truck trans up over and over again.

Start somewhere like this, and find something that works.

http://www.brunosautomotive.com/brc.htm
 
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