Billet Rods

Scott

We have sold sets to people that said they were for pullers but I really do not know for sure. The question I have for you guys is to sit and think about the rod for just a moment. If you take and "I" beam and turn it 90 deg what do you have? The process used to design and build the rods are important and the rod doesn't know what it's in. The same things that hurt the rod in a drag race application and a puller are one in the same..... cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure is cylinder pressure, drag racing or pulling. 6000 RPM is not going to bother them at all
 
from the size of the chargers I see drag racers running I would doubt cylinder pressures wouldt even be in the same ball park as a puller.
 
drag motors usually run above peak torque, while a pull motor starts out screaming and is pulled back into peak torque.

weve seen what happens to drag motors that are short shifted and run in there peak torque (csi engine) for example
 
I think you would be very suprised. Jimmy Smith runs a complete Scheid pulling motor package as does Denis Perry, both drag racing with the very same motor/turbo packages as pullers are running. There is nothing special about HP and torque! They are the same drag racing as sled pulling. The truth is in sled pulling you have longer to spool so a looser exhaust housing can be used which lowers drive pressure and is easier on the motor than what has to be used drag racing.

I'm not here to twist anyone's arm but you need to sit back and look at what is real and what is marketing hype.
 
I-BeamvsH-Beam.jpg

(pillaged this from another debate on this)

I would suggest a h-beam rod with a simular strength (compressive load) of a I-beam will always weigh more.

Ever notice high rise buildings are constructed with I beam, not H beam?
Stronger and lighter.

Pretty sure the two disasters I seen of over rev like 7k or better the pin pulled out of the little end, rod didn't break anyways.

So were back to focusing on compressive load......Ibeam.
 
Diesel Tech said:
I think you would be very suprised. Jimmy Smith runs a complete Scheid pulling motor package as does Denis Perry, both drag racing with the very same motor/turbo packages as pullers are running. There is nothing special about HP and torque! They are the same drag racing as sled pulling. The truth is in sled pulling you have longer to spool so a looser exhaust housing can be used which lowers drive pressure and is easier on the motor than what has to be used drag racing.

I'm not here to twist anyone's arm but you need to sit back and look at what is real and what is marketing hype.
Click to expand...

even if the same engine is used in a drag racing application it will never see the load that it will while pulling.
 
stuckey_272002 said:
even if the same engine is used in a drag racing application it will never see the load that it will while pulling.
Click to expand...

I dunno. If you were running cut Cepek puller tires and had ungodly traction then I would say it's possible to be loaded harder. But with most DOT tires there's enough slip on the dirt that it might not be loaded as hard as you might think.

The drag guys with 4 grippy tires experience a hell of a lot of driveline damage. The upshifts can be nasty. Maybe the instantaneous loads are much higher on asphalt, whereas on the dirt you have a higher average load (but not as peaky). And it would depend also on how fast of a time slip. A 14 second run is probably nothing compared to the guys in the 10s or faster.

Dunno. Both are highly loaded, in different ways.
 
Joesixpack said:
I-BeamvsH-Beam.jpg

(pillaged this from another debate on this)

I would suggest a h-beam rod with a simular strength (compressive load) of a I-beam will always weigh more.

Ever notice high rise buildings are constructed with I beam, not H beam?
Stronger and lighter.

Pretty sure the two disasters I seen of over rev like 7k or better the pin pulled out of the little end, rod didn't break anyways.

So were back to focusing on compressive load......Ibeam.
Click to expand...


This is well done but they're only calculating the moment of inertia in the vertical direction in the drawing. I think the MOI in the perpendicular axis means something. I don't know the magnitude off hand but have been told that side loading of the rods is real and has to be accounted for. I am a fan of I-beam rods too, but I can see where the H-beam could make sense, as Steve is saying. Bottom line is, he runs Finite Element Analysis and that's the real deal.

The comment about the buildings using I-beams is a rather wide generalization. All kinds of shapes are used in buildings, including a lot of W-flange sections (what you're calling H-beam) because of what I said above. I-beams are great in one direction only. So each has its own specific application and saying one is better than another is very misleading.
 
Joesixpack said:
I-BeamvsH-Beam.jpg

(pillaged this from another debate on this)

I would suggest a h-beam rod with a simular strength (compressive load) of a I-beam will always weigh more.

Ever notice high rise buildings are constructed with I beam, not H beam?
Stronger and lighter.

Pretty sure the two disasters I seen of over rev like 7k or better the pin pulled out of the little end, rod didn't break anyways.

So were back to focusing on compressive load......Ibeam.
Click to expand...


steel framed ie. "high rise" buildings use an "H-beam" style for the colums. (vertical support) while the floor beams are an "I-beam" style.
 
shakinIH said:
steel framed ie. "high rise" buildings use an "H-beam" style for the colums. (vertical support) while the floor beams are an "I-beam" style.
Click to expand...

Exactly...because the floor beams are primarily seeing a load in one direction, versus the uprights seeing loads in 3 directions.
 
Regardless of all this I would still say the stock style block is the weakest link and if he puts high dollar rods in a lower dollar block he has a good chance of loseing those high dolllar parts when he loses the block.
 
Keep in mind we are using a Scheid worked over filled ag block. I am comfortable it’s not going to grenade into pieces and take out all 6 rods. I would be willing to bet the 4 year old rods that are in it are still good, but again I feel they have been stressed for four years and am going to upgrade now as we build the new short block.

If anythink we have some good healthy debate here on which rods people feel are better. and of course the ole debate as to who puts there motors through more Sled Pullers, or Drag Racers :)

BBD
 
stuckey_272002 said:
even if the same engine is used in a drag racing application it will never see the load that it will while pulling.
Click to expand...

I think this has been answered but I have to say this statement is wrong.

When sled pulling you have all the time in the world to spool up and get going. As you travel down track the load continue to rise from the sled until you reach the point of loss of traction between the dirt and the tires. the load increases at a steady rate for a total of 300 feet.

Drag racing you cannot sit at the line and spool as you will get timed out. This requires the same size turbo's but a tighter exhaust housing to spool quicker. This puts more stress into the motor to begin with. Then the motor runs up and down the RPM range at max load the entire run. Drag racing is 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile not 300'. Now you have to break loose 4 slick on sticky pavement so there is much more traction drag racing with higher loads for longer periods of time.

Look us that are good at drag racing typically suck at sled pulling as we tend to overpower the track since were not use to dirt. I'm learning the sled pull side from a drag racing view. What I can tell you is we need to bring the power up slower and allow the truck and sled get up to speed while steadily increasing the power. Drag racing we hit the power much quicker and harder and keep it there much longer due to track length. You guys get one shot two if your lucky and it's over while we may make as many as 15 passes per event.

So as you can see there are differences but to say sled pulling is hard on the motor just doesn't add up.
 
I would submit that the only way to solve this riddle is to put torque sensors on both driveshafts and log that data over both a drag run and a sled pull.

Until we have data this will be argued forever.
 
Anyone who thinks drag racing puts as much load on an engine as sled pulling is smoking crack.
Especially a west coast Duramax tuner.:shake:

You racers still do not comprehend what happens on that pulling track.


You guys want an easy example anyone can do? Take you street truck to the dragstrip,and then hook to a sled and report back which you think was more stress.


Scott, what is the price difference between the rods?
 
Diesel Tech said:
I think this has been answered but I have to say this statement is wrong.

When sled pulling you have all the time in the world to spool up and get going. As you travel down track the load continue to rise from the sled until you reach the point of loss of traction between the dirt and the tires. the load increases at a steady rate for a total of 300 feet.

Drag racing you cannot sit at the line and spool as you will get timed out. This requires the same size turbo's but a tighter exhaust housing to spool quicker. This puts more stress into the motor to begin with. Then the motor runs up and down the RPM range at max load the entire run. Drag racing is 1/8 mile or 1/4 mile not 300'. Now you have to break loose 4 slick on sticky pavement so there is much more traction drag racing with higher loads for longer periods of time.

Look us that are good at drag racing typically suck at sled pulling as we tend to overpower the track since were not use to dirt. I'm learning the sled pull side from a drag racing view. What I can tell you is we need to bring the power up slower and allow the truck and sled get up to speed while steadily increasing the power. Drag racing we hit the power much quicker and harder and keep it there much longer due to track length. You guys get one shot two if your lucky and it's over while we may make as many as 15 passes per event.

So as you can see there are differences but to say sled pulling is hard on the motor just doesn't add up.
Click to expand...


I can see most of this, except that drag races are typically shorter than sled pulls. Most sled pulls are 15-20 secs.
 
zstroken said:
I can see most of this, except that drag races are typically shorter than sled pulls. Most sled pulls are 15-20 secs.
Click to expand...

but you have to remember 15 sec at a load that is ramping up , not full load all the time.

drag is say 10 just to be safe, full load 100 percent.
 
inline6power said:
but you have to remember 15 sec at a load that is ramping up , not full load all the time.

drag is say 10 just to be safe, full load 100 percent.
Click to expand...


Not full load? Its 40,000 pounds, thats goes from rolling /slight drag resistance, to full on dragging resistance.
If anything its 100% load, to 200% load.

You racers would blow your shorts if you had to tow a 10,000 camper trailer down the 1/4 mile.
 
Joesixpack said:
I-BeamvsH-Beam.jpg

(pillaged this from another debate on this)

I would suggest a h-beam rod with a simular strength (compressive load) of a I-beam will always weigh more.

Ever notice high rise buildings are constructed with I beam, not H beam?
Stronger and lighter.

Pretty sure the two disasters I seen of over rev like 7k or better the pin pulled out of the little end, rod didn't break anyways.

So were back to focusing on compressive load......Ibeam.
Click to expand...

While the others have already answer most of why this post is incorrect one of the major things that is not covered is the load placed into the piston then pin then rod then crankshaft. The weight of the piston and pin needs to be handled when the rod reverses direction. The worst time is not in compression of this but when it's on the exhaust stroke to intake stroke. The weight of the piston assemble want to keep going right out the top of the block. Then you need to handle the transfer of the load during the compression stroke from the piston pin to the rod and onto the crankshaft. You can do it many ways but you must look at the whole picture just not one part of it.

As for the weight, the stock rods I have here are 2113 grams average. The set of them stays within 4 grams of that weight. I do not know what a marine set weight is. Our rods are 2077 grams average and we keep them within 4 grams of that. The rods come cryogenic treated, micro finished thrust surfaces, triple-tempered, vacuum heat treated and balanced.
 
Sledpuller said:
Not full load? Its 40,000 pounds, thats goes from rolling /slight drag resistance, to full on dragging resistance.
If anything its 100% load, to 200% load.

You racers would blow your shorts if you had to tow a 10,000 camper trailer down the 1/4 mile.
Click to expand...

your right i was just :poke: the pot a little lol. ok i am done
 
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