billet vs non billet cam

Whatever cam you decide on, it is critical, that you must be very honest with yourself about what you really want, and more importantly what you can live with, both in turns of cost, and drivability.

Cams can make enormous changes in any engine program. Gone are the old pulling cams that had huge seat timing, bleeding precious cylinder pressure. While these cams made big power once they were totally out of the power band the average street, and in some cases extreme street truck would ever see they were sloggie down low.

These older designs were not trading low rpm manors for high rpm power , but rather giving up low eng power because of pore design, and misunderstanding the diesel , treating it like a NA Gas engine.

The thoughtful cams now on the market Combine short seat timing ( .006 , lobe lift ) with large number at full flow , ( .200 lobe lift ) .



If you’re going to get a cam, lay out are the parameters with your cam grinder. Single vs. Twins, drag vs. Pulling, Ported cylinder heads vs. Stock. RPM potential is a factor, but a thoughtful cam design will pick you up in the entire RPM range.

One other factor in dedicated performance builds is static compression ratio .

As far as roller cams, they are not an option on any diesel other then super stock alcohol, and these engines run big , 260 + degrees at .050 lobe lift cams . Roller cams cannot deliver the timing events, that a big tappet ( 1.300 24 valve 1.50 CR tappet can. The wheel would have to be 8 feet in diameter.
 
I just want to know if I should run this Billet H2 with the Processed Tappets and ZDDP or try to go back to the standard H2 for a daily driver / occassional hauling / hobby racer truck..

I do not want to build this thing again anytime soon...I want as many miles as I can get from this thing (within reason at 750+ HP)....

Why would ANYbody use or make a cam that wouldn't last?? I still find it hard to believe......

So ya'll are saying, To gain strength you have to sacrafice Longevity??? OR To get Longevity you have to Sacrafice Strength???

I understand that 12V's with P-pumps are different........Mine is a CR! What is the recommendation?
 
Big Swole said:
I just want to know if I should run this Billet H2 with the Processed Tappets and ZDDP or try to go back to the standard H2 for a daily driver / occassional hauling / hobby racer truck..

I do not want to build this thing again anytime soon...I want as many miles as I can get from this thing (within reason at 750+ HP)....

Why would ANYbody use or make a cam that wouldn't last?? I still find it hard to believe......

So ya'll are saying, To gain strength you have to sacrafice Longevity??? OR To get Longevity you have to Sacrafice Strength???
I understand that 12V's with P-pumps are different........Mine is a CR! What is the recommendation?
Click to expand...

On a CR you can get most everything you need from a entry level cast core. You can the same grind on either.



I would use any one of the entry level cams The H2 if you have it will already will do what You need. All of us beleive in our own cam programs.


But for a rpm limited CR , and I mean anything under 4500 the choice is wide, for a average 750 hp truck. Now if you want to go the extra mile, then the sky is the limit. If you use a dot to dot cam, it has to be forgiving enough to factor in the fact that a Cummins is off 1.5 to 2 degrees in either direction.

I have degreed in several hundred cams, and the stock cams are all over the map. With this said if you want a change at maximum performance potential then custom grind will move a lot more air. It will have to be degreed in the motor. Don’t be afraid of this, it’s no more difficult then timing a P pump, and just as critical.



I have participated in producing a new Do It Yourself Video that will make available, in the next few weeks walking you thru properly degreeing in a cam for maximum performance, checking piston to valve clearance, installing, and properly setting installed height in valve springs.

This all inclusive video will go in to the reason behind cams technology’s in diesel performance today. I will also reveal some of the secrets that have gone in to the different projects I have been a part of over the last 25 years.
 
Cams

Comp461, I would find that hard to believe a flat tappet would have a quicker lobe(intensity rate) than a roller. I would need to sit down with the cam doctor and try some things. If you have a 1.5 tappet hole you can make the wheel pretty big. I'm sure the intensity rate would be more than enough to eat valve springs in a hurry. I can't see a low rpm motor (under 8000 rpm) needing anything with a cam like that. I do believe the cam and head(heads) are the heart of the engine and some forget about cr when thinking about a cam and what can be done with the correct cam. P.S. what rocker ratio does the cr dodge run? Thanks Jeff
 
The size of the mushroom face is 1.500, but the tappet is around .500 very small. Even so to match the profile of just a 1.25 flat tappet face the wheel on the roller would have to be 8 feet in diameter.


The roller is an advantage with managing big spring pressures. The short timing events necessary in a diesel , required to move air , and not bleed cylinder pressure , is where the mushroom tappet really shines the degrees of lobe lift over .200 vs. seat timing illustrates this best.


I have even goes as far to look at removing the roller lifters, installing mushroom tappets in a D max . This after seeing the results of a Gas Program, I was involved with recently, and the results of this 10,000 power plant.
 
Hamilton Cams said:
I have had a couple of people send in 8620 billets cams with treated billet tappets in the last month. I know one guy used top notch Brad Penn oil with zinc additives. I believe they had less 5000 miles. The cam and the tappets were worn so bad that they were unusable. Don, didn't you originally say no additives were necessary and that the block did not have to be line bored? Why the change all the sudden?

I see Don and Greg have posted, now if we can get Fletch to post a couple OMG's, this will officially be a pissing match.

Aksparkey- All B.S. aside, I have never seen a high mileage steel billet cam. That is why don is now preaching cam bushings and zddp additive where before it was said they were not needed. I wouldn't say it can't be done, just that traditional wisdom would say it is another thing to worry about. If you used roller tappets it would be a different story. If you want to run it, after a 1000 miles check lash to see if they are starting to eat each other yet. After 10,000 miles I would bar the engine over and measure lift with a dial indicator reading off of the pushrod. Best wishes and good luck with whatever you choose.

Zach
Click to expand...

After reviewing one of your master pieces currently sitting in my shop, I'm still wondering what the correlation is between you and diesels?

Got a fresh Line ?
 
Gawd Im tired of the mis-info. Comp D is becoming the mis-info headquarters in some respects. I dont know about the "others" Billet Steel camshafts, but I do know about ours.

Ours are not going to wear out. Thats just silly talk from people who have never held or even seen one of ours. One of our Billets require the block be dis-assembled to have cam bearings installed and one does not. Neither will wear out any faster than a casting as long as simple maintenance like oil changes with high quality oil and filters are used and valve lash adjustments are made.

High pressure valve springs, increased RPM and over extended oil drains with crap oil is your biggest issues. Not a billet steel camshaft with rockwell hardness levels in line to last hundreds of thousands of miles.
 
Soup Nazi said:
Gawd Im tired of the mis-info. Comp D is becoming the mis-info headquarters in some respects. I dont know about the "others" Billet Steel camshafts, but I do know about ours.

Ours are not going to wear out. Thats just silly talk from people who have never held or even seen one of ours. One of our Billets require the block be dis-assembled to have cam bearings installed and one does not. Neither will wear out any faster than a casting as long as simple maintenance like oil changes with high quality oil and filters are used and valve lash adjustments are made.

High pressure valve springs, increased RPM and over extended oil drains with crap oil is your biggest issues. Not a billet steel camshaft with rockwell hardness levels in line to last hundreds of thousands of miles.
Click to expand...

Thank you Don!!!

Your right, There are SO many different opinions on here, it's hard to know who to beleive.......Especially for a fairly new guy like myself...

I'll will make sure to run high quality oils with the additive and will change it often......

Thanks again!
 
COMP461 said:
Roller cams cannot deliver the timing events, that a big tappet ( 1.300 24 valve 1.50 CR tappet can. The wheel would have to be 8 feet in diameter.
Click to expand...
\

8 FEET!!!!!!?????????

No wonder those engines didn't look stock.......
 
here we go

And /or: Nick Zitzman’s appearance on American Idol, might be a better fit?

Ok, here’s another metaphor: X and Y chromosomes have an equal amount of little soldiers going to battle. If those little bustards don’t pull off a clean collision you could be stuck w/ a hermorphidite or something that has no business in that environment..OMG! do you know what your DNA is Zack?
 
COMP461 said:
As far as roller cams, they are not an option on any diesel other then super stock alcohol, and these engines run big , 260 + degrees at .050 lobe lift cams . Roller cams cannot deliver the timing events, that a big tappet ( 1.300 24 valve 1.50 CR tappet can. The wheel would have to be 8 feet in diameter.
Click to expand...

So I need to take the roller cam out of the Diesel SuperStock huh?
Whats the best way to bore for an 8 foot wheel???
 
Soup Nazi said:
Gawd Im tired of the mis-info. Comp D is becoming the mis-info headquarters in some respects. QUOTE]


I remember a site a few years back that was a bigger source of mis-info,Care to guess who was the Lead Hyena Don ~ (Miss Cleo)???
Click to expand...
 
I just wanted to wish everyone an up and coming Happy New Year cause 09' is going to be allot of fun to watch.

Jim
 
COMP461 said:
I have participated in producing a new Do It Yourself Video that will make available, in the next few weeks walking you thru properly degreeing in a cam for maximum performance, checking piston to valve clearance, installing, and properly setting installed height in valve springs.

This all inclusive video will go in to the reason behind cams technology’s in diesel performance today. I will also reveal some of the secrets that have gone in to the different projects I have been a part of over the last 25 years.
Click to expand...


Greg please tell me this is legit viedo and you didn't slip a home video in the package:doh::badidea:. only maybe if it had a cutie in it (you know who i'm talking about)was doing the naration and modeling!!!:hehe::hehe:

good tech videos are hard to come by lets see it!!
 
ERemington said:
Is that who did Taylors truck?*bdh*
Click to expand...

:hehe:Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he’s the creator of that elite exhibition of performance excellence.
That’s why we don’t allow it to leave the shop, there’s hundreds and hundreds of precession crafted horse power waiting to be unleashed and the NW is not ready for Professor Cam’s creation.
 
Last edited:
Now guys i mean come on now lets take it easy i mean hey i spent around $10,000 on that motor and got 448hp with that performance pump and amazing cam and smooth motor skills after my truck caught on fire and ruined my engine from professional tuning, Should i have gotten more for my money???

GREG is releasing a video, sweet mother of god, secrets of 25 years???? man you have been in this diesel game a long time :hehe: to think guys will be wrenching on trucks yelling push REWIND WHAT DID GREG SAY?????? :hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe: oh man
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top