CR melted piston discussion, why, why not, and for the love of god how not to..

HIGH TECH RAM said:
See, I still dont get it... For the last 2 years I drag raced and pulled my 06 with 3.3's stg3 cp3 fro John and a 66 and got it super hot multiple times with rp on 4 and the puck on 60hp. You would think that my pistons would have been torched. Ive looked at them several times and all is well. Why is my situation any different then others? Also, Timing has always been on #3 RP was always above 27.5k
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agreed

others have not faired so well... so what In your opinion is killing thse things.. timing? and or rp? both?

would a modded rail aid or worsen the problem?
 
Modded rail... hmm? Maybe ditch the psi boxes and run a modded rail with bigger stix.
 
Great threads about the melting pistons here guys.........However, I think I need to chip something in here. From all I've read about 04.5 trucks and the injection events............There are 3 events at lower rpm's........then at higher rpm's the post injection event shuts down, so in effect you've only got two. I've read that on numerous other sites over the years. Don't ask me about what rpm the post event shuts down, because I've got no idea. Flame suit on if y'all know something different about this!!:ft:
 
Big Swole said:
I hope your not superstitious man!!!! Knock on some wood ,Fast!!!!

LOL
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Oh I've been doin it:Cheer:! Ever since all this melting piston business has been goin on I've been kinda paranoid. I dont think a modded rail is the answer. I think these CR's are easy to heat soak, Injectors are not flowing close enough to each other(%) I'm in agreeance with to High of RP and injection events I still cant find the difference between my 06 and others who have melted things down.
 
a modded rail would have nothing to do with melting a piston or replacing a psi box.

I also don't believe high rail psi is the cause either. I've raced my truck for some time now and also run the MP-8 @ 100% when racing. I never use anymore than stock RP with the Smarty. I've never ran any more than stock timing with the Smarty. My larger injectors have already added that.

When I did melt a piston.... the truck was basically stock and between the Smarty and TST I had stacked.... the timing was extreme as was the duration. Those two things along with a heat soaked motor was bad news.

Since then, I've run the crap out of my truck drag racing and sled pulling. I buried my water temp gauge 3 times during some sled pulls and every time I race, the EGT's are buried by the 1/8.... 1600F+

The heat obviously caused a issue with me melting a valve recently but, in 2.5yrs of all that torture, my pistons and cylinder walls look great. As I said, my MP-8 is on 100% and when I'm on a track my RP is always in the 26K to 29K zone. I don't believe RP is causing things to melt. IMHO...... it's incorrect programming compounding the issue.
 
HIGH TECH RAM said:
See, I still dont get it... For the last 2 years I drag raced and pulled my 06 with 3.3's stg3 cp3 fro John and a 66 and got it super hot multiple times with rp on 4 and the puck on 60hp. You would think that my pistons would have been torched. Ive looked at them several times and all is well. Why is my situation any different then others? Also, Timing has always been on #3 RP was always above 27.5k
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ever ran a torch?

add some oxygen to the flame and see what happens...
 
joelc79 said:
Well add me to the list of melted piston owners. just got word num 3 looks like a mushroom, injector still looks good. valves hit on num 1.
03
smarty tntR
lev 5
timming 2
rp2
mp8 15% holding 27K all the way down 1/4 with 90hp sticks and a ATS Aurora 5K. My temps were in the 1450 range with eng around 230deg. Truck ran fine, started knocking (valve to piston on num 1) but still ran great. There was no abnormal smoke or vibration. I'll try and get some pics.
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

dammit. sorry man.
 
jlibert said:
ever ran a torch?

add some oxygen to the flame and see what happens...
Click to expand...

So You think by simply adding more air(Oxygen) or Twins to my old set-up I'm asking for a burnt piston?
Well I did put twins on and have looked at my pistons and everything is still fine. Theres more to it Than adding Oxygen IMO.
 
Its just money right...? Looks like i might of added the "oxygen" to my flame with that A5K. Thanks alot jp LOL! I'm not sure what my problem was, maybe i had to much air too. I'm still not sure what direction i'm going in. I am looking for a second truck, prob a 2nd gen. Should i mod it or should i go for broke on the 03. I'm just bored and pissed off without my truck. I hate riding my bike and my companys boring azz 1/2 tons. NEED DIESEL
 
Joel I think you had multiple issues. Valve to piston contact in #1 had nothin to do with the melted piston in #3
 
joelc79 said:
Its just money right...? Looks like i might of added the "oxygen" to my flame with that A5K. Thanks alot jp LOL! I'm not sure what my problem was, maybe i had to much air too. I'm still not sure what direction i'm going in. I am looking for a second truck, prob a 2nd gen. Should i mod it or should i go for broke on the 03. I'm just bored and pissed off without my truck. I hate riding my bike and my companys boring azz 1/2 tons. NEED DIESEL
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Buy Mine! It's reliable. As reliable as the drivetrain can be with 1,000Lbs tq, hehe

Merrick
 
HIGH TECH RAM said:
Joel I think you had multiple issues. Valve to piston contact in #1 had nothin to do with the melted piston in #3
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no, i no that. i'm just confused about the melted piston. I havn't seen it yet so who knows. Karl said the injector appears fine. I'll either have em tested or just go with new bigger ones. I'm confused cause it ran fairly cool and it never got to hot, and the fact the injector is fine. The truck ran great, still. If i would have had ear plugs in i would have never noticed the valve hitting the piston noise. LOL I'll be out of town for a bit this week and i'll go down to Redline and check it out.
 
HIGH TECH RAM said:
So You think by simply adding more air(Oxygen) or Twins to my old set-up I'm asking for a burnt piston?
Well I did put twins on and have looked at my pistons and everything is still fine. Theres more to it Than adding Oxygen IMO.
Click to expand...

Have you operated a torch? yes or no?

If you have, you'd understand what I'm talking about. Fuel with insufficient oxygen will only make a sooty flame that isn't good for cutting through metal. Add some oxygen and you get a clean-burning flame that is best suited for metal heating/cutting.

I'm not specifically saying that adding air to your existing setup WILL burn pistons. I don't think anyone can say that with any certainty. Our engines are more dynamic and complicated than a simple cutting torch-- It's just something to think about.

I wish we could put a pyro probe in the combustion chamber, or drilled into the bottom of the piston somehow. A pyro in the manifold could actually be indicating the converse of actual combustion chamber conditions.

-jp
 
triton said:
a modded rail would have nothing to do with melting a piston or replacing a psi box.

I also don't believe high rail psi is the cause either. I've raced my truck for some time now and also run the MP-8 @ 100% when racing. I never use anymore than stock RP with the Smarty. I've never ran any more than stock timing with the Smarty. My larger injectors have already added that.

When I did melt a piston.... the truck was basically stock and between the Smarty and TST I had stacked.... the timing was extreme as was the duration. Those two things along with a heat soaked motor was bad news.

Since then, I've run the crap out of my truck drag racing and sled pulling. I buried my water temp gauge 3 times during some sled pulls and every time I race, the EGT's are buried by the 1/8.... 1600F+

The heat obviously caused a issue with me melting a valve recently but, in 2.5yrs of all that torture, my pistons and cylinder walls look great. As I said, my MP-8 is on 100% and when I'm on a track my RP is always in the 26K to 29K zone. I don't believe RP is causing things to melt. IMHO...... it's incorrect programming compounding the issue.
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Well rootin this up again, (sorry not sooner, no time)

It makes sence what you say about the incorrect programming, I noticed you dont add more timing than what the MP8 adds, and you also dont increase timing, due to your large injectors. So stock timing, stock rail pressure and you kept your engine doing well?

the only parameters i see that are constant here are stock timing and stock rp, thus the reduction of heat and duration in the piston chamber? perhaps thats why your truck has lived through the abuse...

NOw correct me if im wrong here, a modded rail, plus small or stock injectors, will decrease RP due to increased volume of fuel? (IE if it has a larger area for fuel to flow, similar to larger lines on a 12V)

thanks!
 
....
TxDiesel007 said:
Well rootin this up again, (sorry not sooner, no time)

It makes sence what you say about the incorrect programming, I noticed you dont add more timing than what the MP8 adds, and you also dont increase timing, due to your large injectors. So stock timing, stock rail pressure and you kept your engine doing well?
MP8 doesn't add timing, the old ramifiers might have. There is a viable arguement that more pressure effectively increases timing by injecting more fuel in a given period even though the initial point of injection doesn't change



NOw correct me if im wrong here, a modded rail, plus small or stock injectors, will decrease RP due to increased volume of fuel? (IE if it has a larger area for fuel to flow, similar to larger lines on a 12V)

A modded rail (if you believe in them) should only be used to increase the available volume of high pressure fuel -- not to reduce rail pressure. We need to get around this whole problem without reducing the rail pressure.
thanks!
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my head hurts... all i know is we need to eliminate the first event for race applications
 
jlibert said:
....
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ok thanks jilbert!

ok so an MP8 is strictly a rail pressure box, got it, no added timing from added pressure, got it..

and thanks for clearing it up on the modded rail...

i think its startin to make sence now, stock rp and stock timing equals slightly lower risk...

thanks for helpin

Rick
 
I didn't see where anyone brought up the fact that the cr motors have a constant high pressure against the injectors. If your pushing the limits on timing would the fuel that leaks by be enough to cause problems. You are bound to get more and more over time.
 
O.K. This is a great thread!!!! now what is the stock timing on CR? and what boxes ad d timong and what boxes add pressure? how much timing does some of these programmers add??? Does it vary?
 
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