Cummins ISX

jfaulkner said:
You mean a POS Volvo with a dog on the hood?:umno:
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They currently have a great product, cant say the same for the old 12L stuff they did have major EGR issues.


Snedge said:
Hmmmm. Go figure. LOL
Did you see the Undercover boss episode with the Mack CEO on?
Pretty cool.
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Yeah I did, They were out in production, I had no clue they were there. But being in the product development side we miss alot of the day to day stuff that happens in general population.
 
C111 said:
Response time has far more effect on drivability than racing.


I don't see why that would be the case. All they really need to do is set the EGR's flow to 0% across the map and disable the electrical check or set the trouble code trigger outside the modified range.
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I asked about why they dump the VGT when you do a complete EGR delete and this is the answer I got.

You don't have to do the VGT delete at the same time you do the EGR delete. When I talk with someone about these engines I tell them to do it as parts fail.

You can do a standard Stage 1 tune on the ECM, I recommend this if the engine has existing warranty left and the customer wants to utilize it till it expires.

You can do the Stage 1 tune with the EGR deleted. If anyone has an EGR valve going bad or is bad.......I recommend that they do a Stage 1 tune with the EGR delete at the moment. The cost of doing this versus fixing the EGR valve isn't that much more and you've eliminated future EGR failures.

The turbo will fail sooner or later in the future, at this time I'd send the ECM back to add the VGT turbo delete and install a different turbo and exhaust manifold.

By doing it this way it will cost more $$$$$ for the complete conversion to a standard turbo over the long haul, but you don't have to pay for it all at one shot. This conversion isn't cheap and to be able to do it in bits and pieces as the emission parts fail is the easiest for people to afford.

I had someone that did an ISX Stage 1 with the EGR delete last week. Jerry called me afterwards to tell me the ECM has a number of recent VGT faults codes stored. With these turbos it not if they self-destruct or fail its a matter of when. A new turbo from Cummins is around $4000 to replace and it will also fail in the future if you run the truck hard. It seems if you do a regional haul or short haul with many starts and stops in a day, you're lucky to get 300,000 miles out of a turbo. The over the road group ranges in the 500,000 mile range between failures.
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Timebomb said:
They currently have a great product, cant say the same for the old 12L stuff they did have major EGR issues.
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I know of 2 medium sized fleets one was pure mack (200 trucks) and they dumped mack the last time because of cam issues. The same issue with another fleet but they were all Volvo with again cam issues. Some didn't make it 200k before they died. And Volvo with 2 EGR valves *bdh*

I like the looks of the new Titan but as long as Volvo has their fingers in the pie I fear quality will drop in the name of profit.
 
anywhere from 440k to 600k on our trucks, ALL ISX powered, only replaced 5 turbos out of a fleet of 16 trucks and they were on 5 seperate trucks.......
 
C111 said:
Thats just an outright lie to increase sales.
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I have to disagree. I know of 2 trucks personally that have had at least one VGT die in under 400k each. I'm sure they have made updates to fix the reliability issues but anytime you increase the number of moving parts and sensors your going to have more issues. Especially in the harsh environment in and around a turbo. I think the odds of seeing an ISX with say ~600k miles with the original turbo are the same as seeing bigfoot. There are plenty of high mileage/original turbo trucks running around, none of them are VGT's.
 
we have a truck with 550k that has the original VGT.....and 3 more not far behind that. all are 07 pre emission trucks
 
jfaulkner said:
I have to disagree. I know of 2 trucks personally that have had at least one VGT die in under 400k each.
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And there are dozens of thousands more on the road without problems.

I'm sure they have made updates to fix the reliability issues but anytime you increase the number of moving parts and sensors your going to have more issues.
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The VGT design adds only 3 moving parts to the turbo. Compare that to 15+ with Garrett's design.

Especially in the harsh environment in and around a turbo. I think the odds of seeing an ISX with say ~600k miles with the original turbo are the same as seeing bigfoot.
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Not even remotely.

There are plenty of high mileage/original turbo trucks running around, none of them are VGT's.
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Flat out wrong.

all are 07 pre emission trucks
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Thats funny. Anything made after 2002 is an "emissions engine".
 
Turbo life depends on how regeneration is done. Some applications use late injection which is VERY hard on the turbo, and some use a "7th injector" which is little more than a flamethrower/webasto but far easier on the turbo and engine.
 
C111 said:
And there are dozens of thousands more on the road without problems.
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That's GREAT! Unless your one of the many with a $4k bill to replace a turbo.

C111 said:
The VGT design adds only 3 moving parts to the turbo. Compare that to 15+ with Garrett's design.
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So.......the Holset VGT is the lesser of the 2 evils? Ok, I'll give you that but it's still not as reliable as a normal charger.

Look, if your a designer or a parts changer (dealer mechanic) all this junk is great. Now if your the guy trying to make money with these engines your tune changes. If one of our trucks is down the potential loss of revenue is ~$6k each per week. So it doesn't matter if it's a part failure or something as stupid as a check engine light due to a sensor, they all add up to loss of productivity and more downtime. Don't even try and convince anyone that these newer engines are as reliable as their older counterparts. There's a reason and a market to eliminate all problematic parts, the VGT just happens to be one of them. When your the one signing the check, you decide what's worth it and what's not. Due to lack of options the next truck I order will probably have an ISX, it will be stripped of all EPA junk. I'll gladly trade a warranty for reliability.:pop:
 
jfaulkner said:
That's GREAT! Unless your one of the many with a $4k bill to replace a turbo.
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Thats why most companies require drivers to keep a maintenance account, no matter the make/engine.

So.......the Holset VGT is the lesser of the 2 evils? Ok, I'll give you that but it's still not as reliable as a normal charger.
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Actually it is. Nearly all the problems are related to the EGR and DPF.

Now if your the guy trying to make money with these engines your tune changes.
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So instead of living with great torque response and saving $4000 for a "maybe" repair someday, its better to spend that $4000 now on ECM programming, an exhaust manifold and new turbo to replace the perfectly good one already installed just because you're afraid of the new technology? :1tooth:

Don't even try and convince anyone that these newer engines are as reliable as their older counterparts.
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Right, because closed-minded people, such as yourself, can't be convinced of anything that differs from their beliefs.

There's a reason and a market to eliminate all problematic parts, the VGT just happens to be one of them.
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An extremely small one since eliminating the EGR and VGT turbo is actually illegal in all 50 states. Buy hey, whats the risk of a $5000 fine, you've already spent $4000 replacing a perfectly good turbo!
 
300d+c111

Are you two brothers or just the same person using two user names, there can't be two people that will argue that hard for a POS VGT turbo. It is funny that motors with a VGT from an ISX to an ISB and everything in between have more problems than motors with a non VGT turbo I know it is definitely the emissions systems that cause the turbos to fail anything but the turbo *bdh*. I wonder why cummins kept the ISC as a straight turbo for as long as they possibly could using the emissions credits they had earned over the years.
 
so is the C111 guy banned because of this thread? I'm not gonna argue any of it, all this wizzy... EPA.... too many moving parts junk...... keeps me deep in WORK :clap:
 
300D said:
Thats why most companies require drivers to keep a maintenance account, no matter the make/engine.
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Wow, that's hilarious. "We know your EPA engine is a POS so rather than fix the problem you should just put extra money aside to cover the added expenses to fix it and cover downtime.":clap:Good call man, you must be the owner of a LARGE fleet of trucks because a maintenance account is a totally new concept to the rest of us.:lolly:


Actually it is. Nearly all the problems are related to the EGR and DPF.

So instead of living with great torque response and saving $4000 for a "maybe" repair someday, its better to spend that $4000 now on ECM programming, an exhaust manifold and new turbo to replace the perfectly good one already installed just because you're afraid of the new technology? :1tooth:


Right, because closed-minded people, such as yourself, can't be convinced of anything that differs from their beliefs.
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Sorry for expecting a product I buy to be reliable, what was I thinking. Just talked to a guy yesterday, he was driving a new truck because his previous company issued tractor ('07 Columbia with an ISX) was broke down for 11 combined months out of the 3 years he drove it. First charger lasted 35k miles. :woohoo:


An extremely small one since eliminating the EGR and VGT turbo is actually illegal in all 50 states. Buy hey, whats the risk of a $5000 fine, you've already spent $4000 replacing a perfectly good turbo!
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OH NO!!!!! Say it ain't so!!! Next I suppose your going to tell me all the stuff I've done to my pickup is also illegal.LOL

If I was to pickup a brand spanking new truck today, how much should I put in my "maintenance account" to cover the downtime? We currently have 5 trucks running daily, several hauling specialized freight that pays $5.00+ per mile. So assuming 1 truck can gross $6k per week I would have to have $20,000 per truck saved just to cover the payment, maintenance costs and lost revenue since a rental truck is going to be out of the question. I know I should just buy an extra truck at $140k that way I can be totally prepared. LOL
 
1-5-3-6-2-4 said:
so is the C111 guy banned because of this thread? I'm not gonna argue any of it, all this wizzy... EPA.... too many moving parts junk...... keeps me deep in WORK :clap:
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The only people who actually believe all this junk is great NEVER have any money invested in it. I'm not even blaming Cummins, none of the other brands are any better. But to say they're not problematic your either completely stupid or just totally out of the loop. When your the one signing the checks, your tune changes quickly.
 
300D said:
But is your pickup a primary source of income that you're willing to let get red tagged at a POE?
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I don't cross any borders, I don't and won't go to any ports and I don't go to Cali so I'm not worried about it.
 
jfaulkner said:
The only people who actually believe all this junk is great NEVER have any money invested in it. I'm not even blaming Cummins, none of the other brands are any better. But to say they're not problematic your either completely stupid or just totally out of the loop. When your the one signing the checks, your tune changes quickly.
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You don't understand. I'm a HD Mechanic. Instead of being Capt. TriggerHappy, re-read my statement with that in mind.

You'll get it.
 
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