Deranged carnage solved

Is it really something that a few cans of carb. cleaner and rolling in some fresh bearings wouldnt fix? This kind of crap just comes with racing, it always sucks but expect something to happen each trip out and be thankful when it does'nt; this has been my way of thinking for the past 17 years of racing. Hope you get it fiqured out though, good luck.
Ryan

I'll get it fixed Ryan, its just gonna need a tear down, cleaning, and some time. The Time is the hardest thing for me. We also never got it off the trailer, thats the sucky part. We had an .080 jet in the first stage and a .110 jet in the second. Breaking it was an option, but breaking it on the trailer just sucked. :bang
 
Got ya, I understand completly. Man, Im sure you know but thats a lot of juice. For compairson the Most Ive ever sprayed down track ever was 2 .073" jets in the Black Truck just a few times, it hit like Mike Tyson and got pistons one of the times. Have you tried a pair of .055's yet, may not be as big of hit if your not severly overfueled as I was but it was a fast and safe tune up for me for a long time, 6 teens or low twentys all day long. Just a thought for the fresh mill coming up, at certain levels nitrous adds a lot of heat
 
Okay, I'm going to toss something out there.. and if this thread turns into a **** show as quick as I'm afraid it might, go ahead and delete what I've posted. It ain't work dragging the entire thread down.

However, I'm really confused by what filters Trusted Performance are using for their kits. I don't need to know brands... This is what confuses/concerns me:

"They have come up with a remote oil filter mounting system that has two inline full flow filters that will filter the oil down to 3 microns."

Now, I admit that I haven't followed the world of oil filters for some time. I did hours up hours of research before I built my bypass system, but I haven't kept up on the newest changes.. If something has changed recently, I appologize for even bringing this up..

But here is my gripe: I can't think of a single manufacturer or application that has a FULL FLOW oil filter that will filter down to 3 micron. That is without question Bypass oil filter filtration levels... And most spin on bypass filters will rarely get down to that level (at least any that you can purchase over the counter, like Tank suggested earlier).

Which begs the question.. What filters are they using in this full flow application? If they are actually using bypass oil filters, then there is no question the elements would fail.. They are not designed at all for the pressures or volume of oil that a full flow filter goes through, especially in a diesel application. I think you would experience a failure exactly like what you are describing: a large chunk of media would fail, and oil would take the path of least resistance from that point forward...

I'm really curious what oil filters (once again, not brand, but type) they are using. If it is indeed a filter that is designed for a bypass application, I would say without question the oil filter company is going to tell you to pound sand... And, I hate to say it, the burdon of proof is going to fall on Trusted to show that they chose oil filters that are appropriate for the application.. If the specs for oil flow (GPM), pressures, etc are out of line with what the filter manufacturer says is acceptable, you're probably not going to get much help from them.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm bashing anyone here. I'm mostly just thinking out loud. When you are talking about an engine as expensive as the one in your truck, no one is going to want to bite the bullet and pick up the bill. If nothing else, maybe some of these ideas can play a role depending on what you are told tomorrow. Good luck with your phone call. I really do hope it goes well.
 
Okay, I'm going to toss something out there.. and if this thread turns into a **** show as quick as I'm afraid it might, go ahead and delete what I've posted. It ain't work dragging the entire thread down.

However, I'm really confused by what filters Trusted Performance are using for their kits. I don't need to know brands... This is what confuses/concerns me:

"They have come up with a remote oil filter mounting system that has two inline full flow filters that will filter the oil down to 3 microns."

Now, I admit that I haven't followed the world of oil filters for some time. I did hours up hours of research before I built my bypass system, but I haven't kept up on the newest changes.. If something has changed recently, I appologize for even bringing this up..

But here is my gripe: I can't think of a single manufacturer or application that has a FULL FLOW oil filter that will filter down to 3 micron. That is without question Bypass oil filter filtration levels... And most spin on bypass filters will rarely get down to that level (at least any that you can purchase over the counter, like Tank suggested earlier).

Which begs the question.. What filters are they using in this full flow application? If they are actually using bypass oil filters, then there is no question the elements would fail.. They are not designed at all for the pressures or volume of oil that a full flow filter goes through, especially in a diesel application. I think you would experience a failure exactly like what you are describing: a large chunk of media would fail, and oil would take the path of least resistance from that point forward...

I'm really curious what oil filters (once again, not brand, but type) they are using. If it is indeed a filter that is designed for a bypass application, I would say without question the oil filter company is going to tell you to pound sand... And, I hate to say it, the burdon of proof is going to fall on Trusted to show that they chose oil filters that are appropriate for the application.. If the specs for oil flow (GPM), pressures, etc are out of line with what the filter manufacturer says is acceptable, you're probably not going to get much help from them.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm bashing anyone here. I'm mostly just thinking out loud. When you are talking about an engine as expensive as the one in your truck, no one is going to want to bite the bullet and pick up the bill. If nothing else, maybe some of these ideas can play a role depending on what you are told tomorrow. Good luck with your phone call. I really do hope it goes well.

What about hydraulic filters? For example the HF6604 FASS uses from fleetgaurd, its rated down to 3 microns, made for some pressure, and heat that hydraulic systems operate under? Interesting question, but I would think that there are filters available that can do it.


Best of luck Tim! Hopefully the issue gets resolved cleanly. Definitely get the 6.0 going and kick some butt with it! :rockwoot:
 
What about hydraulic filters? For example the HF6604 FASS uses from fleetgaurd, its rated down to 3 microns, made for some pressure, and heat that hydraulic systems operate under? Interesting question, but I would think that there are filters available that can do it.


Best of luck Tim! Hopefully the issue gets resolved cleanly. Definitely get the 6.0 going and kick some butt with it! :rockwoot:


Maybe... But I still see a serious issue with using a filter for an application that is way outside the design parameters.. Once again, I think you'll get the same response: "we never intended our filter for that.. Pound sand."

I don't know how the filters are bypassed on 6.0 trucks either. A hydraulic filter probably will have no internal bypass.. Which could lead to the same problem. High RPM, high flow through a filter media that has 0 bypass and you could blow the filter apart. I think cummins have an internal bypass in the filter housing and none in the filter itself.. But, I also think it is one of the few engines in the world with this design.. Most have no way to bypass the oil filter other than the bypass in the oil filter itself.

Without naming the manufacturer, does anyone have a filter number to cross refernce?
 
Maybe... But I still see a serious issue with using a filter for an application that is way outside the design parameters.. Once again, I think you'll get the same response: "we never intended our filter for that.. Pound sand."

I don't know how the filters are bypassed on 6.0 trucks either. A hydraulic filter probably will have no internal bypass.. Which could lead to the same problem. High RPM, high flow through a filter media that has 0 bypass and you could blow the filter apart. I think cummins have an internal bypass in the filter housing and none in the filter itself.. But, I also think it is one of the few engines in the world with this design.. Most have no way to bypass the oil filter other than the bypass in the oil filter itself.

Without naming the manufacturer, does anyone have a filter number to cross refernce?


I don't know jack about a 6.0L oiling system, but you aren't going to blow a hydraulic filter apart with normal oil pressures and flows from an engine. Hydraulic filters have a much higher pressure rating...at least any that I've dealt with.


Sorry about the problems again Tim...hope you get something resolved so you can get back on the track and have fun with it!

Chris
 
The filter reads 25 GPM return and 150 PSI. I'm no where near that. My system is not the full trusted system from their site. I only have the single 10 micron filter.
 
Well Tim, at least you know you can check off the "What caused the issue" box..and move to the next box to check off. I wish you the best of luck in getting DeRanged back on the track making passes.
 
Well after talking to a few folks last night, I am gonna go through the motor and make a few changes while I am in there. I DO NOT want this to happen again, and I want to be able to take my time and get it better than it was. Already have larger turbo's and injectors on the way. LOL I might seriously look at having Joe get an intercooler in there while I am at it.
 
Most hydraulic systems have a bypass valve in the filter housing.. (not saying you can't have a filter that will have one too..) On a Deere systems.. they usually bypass at 45psi differential pressure.. (in the filter housing.)
Bryan
 
Thats what I was thinking JDG. But I couldn't say anything with certainty.

I'd also be concerned about viscosity differences between hydraulic fluid and motor oil.. Might not make any difference, or it might make all the difference in the world. Still very interesting.

Even 10 micron is pretty low for a full flow filter. Usually they are in the 16-20 range at best.. I'm also not sure if that is nominal or absolute.. Either way, I'd still be interested to know what filter application that filter is from..

Have you talked to anyone yet? Any response?
 
Yip, they offered me a new filter and said thats all their warranty offers. I am on my way to talk with a product liability attorney when I finish my "hot pocket" meal. Its been made clear I am on my own with this as well.
 
Before you waste your time with an attorney, have you found out the proper spec'd usage for the filter you have on your engine by the filter manufacturer?
 
Before you waste your time with an attorney, have you found out the proper spec'd usage for the filter you have on your engine by the filter manufacturer?

Bingo! Need to know all the specs, limits and recommended applications to make sure you were within those first. Maybe they dont recommend that there filters are run on anything thats "deranged".. :hehe: Good luck man!
 
Sorry to hear about that. Good luck and i wish the best for you......Brad
 
sounds like you got a bad case of BOHICA coming at you...
good luck man hope for the best!!
 
How is this system bypassed, Like what was asked earlier. Overall filter pressure rating is one thing, but the pressure differential pre and post filter is the key. We have seen this type of failure time and time again, when their is a problem with the bypass.
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I have been in your shoes in a way, a couple years ago I had a motor in the machine shop 4 times for the same problem (spun bearings) changed everything out and still the same problem. Only common thing was the filter. well on the final trip we paid more attention to the filter and it was collapsing causing loss in oil flow. So after 4 motors in 2 months I contacted the filter company and they said the filter was not designed for what I was using it for on a "race" motor even though it was their "race" filter. They offered me a replacement but was the end of the coverage. Needless to say I wouldn't use their filters to filter my piss now.


Hope you have better luck than I did.
 
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