durability of a waterman gear driven pump?

Disturbed,

Nope, I drive a smoke free truck, and think that term is about as stupid as it gets. I have seen a lot of naysayers on this forum who bash someone for wanting to try a new idea and they say it will never work, and guess what? It works fine and for some odd reason you never see those same people post again on the thread. I'm not set on a waterman as I have previously posted, but after getting off the phone with Waterman I feel confident it can be made to work. The flow numbers the pump is rated at and what it would actually push in my application are completely different. The flow numbers are based on 4K rpms, as a daily driver I would not be cruising around at 4K rpms. So the amount this pump would push would be significantly lower, nearly 1/2. With that in mind why wouldn't a poppet valve work in this application? Apparently this is not a new concept I have because the person at Waterman I spoke to said he has numerous people driving these pumps on DD's and as long as it is set up correctly, it'll run great. He said they have tight tolerances and with alcohol and some of the other fuels it can be hard on the pumps, with D2 the lubrication would extend the life of the pump by a good bit. Doing rough math, the person I spoke to said this pump would probably move 1.8 GPM, and if I went with their "micro Midget" it would move 1.4 GPM within my RPM range. I would think a properly plumbed setup could handle either of these scenarios just fine. Disturbed, are you currently running a Waterman on your truck? If so how do you have it plumbed?
 
rightwinger said:
DTT is actually saying that this pump will not keep up with a 12V very well. And I have had less than great experience with their customer service over the phone. After getting on Tork Tek's page and reading the article on how ineficient the stock 12V pump is, I would not go that route most likely. Wouldn't the OFV on the p pump relieve the pressure on the pump from the waterman? Do any other companies make a gear driven pump that is reputable? I'm not stuck on a waterman, but I am stuck on the idea of a mechanical gear driven pump that doesn't have to be mounted on the oil pan......
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Stock 12valve lift pump can support 600hp. That's what I would use.
 
I run a fuelboss with the hyperdrive wheel.

No leaks of any kind and no issues.

Ran the same belt for over 40,000 miles with no issues.
 
Glad to hear you're fuel boss isn't leaking from the oil pan, I guess it's kinda hit or miss. I followed the instructions, used RTV on the bolts replacing the oil pan bolts and it still leaks a small amount, just enough to bother me...ha ha. You are actually the first person I've talked with that doesn't have a small oil leak from mounting it. I think it's a great pump, I just wish it didn't set that low, leak oil, and have a belt. I have heard of these belts lasting 100K miles on these in some cases though, but I just figured if I can go another route and get rid of the belt, have it set up higher, and not risk an oil leak it would be an all around better choice. These waterman pumps are about the same price as the DTT or the fuel boss.....625.00 is what the sprint 500 sells for, I have seen some AD/FASS prices just as much.
 
rightwinger said:
Disturbed,

Nope, I drive a smoke free truck, and think that term is about as stupid as it gets. I have seen a lot of naysayers on this forum who bash someone for wanting to try a new idea and they say it will never work, and guess what? It works fine and for some odd reason you never see those same people post again on the thread. I'm not set on a waterman as I have previously posted, but after getting off the phone with Waterman I feel confident it can be made to work. The flow numbers the pump is rated at and what it would actually push in my application are completely different. The flow numbers are based on 4K rpms, as a daily driver I would not be cruising around at 4K rpms. So the amount this pump would push would be significantly lower, nearly 1/2. With that in mind why wouldn't a poppet valve work in this application? Apparently this is not a new concept I have because the person at Waterman I spoke to said he has numerous people driving these pumps on DD's and as long as it is set up correctly, it'll run great. He said they have tight tolerances and with alcohol and some of the other fuels it can be hard on the pumps, with D2 the lubrication would extend the life of the pump by a good bit. Doing rough math, the person I spoke to said this pump would probably move 1.8 GPM, and if I went with their "micro Midget" it would move 1.4 GPM within my RPM range. I would think a properly plumbed setup could handle either of these scenarios just fine. Disturbed, are you currently running a Waterman on your truck? If so how do you have it plumbed?
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Yes I have a gear driven pump on my truck. Read the instructions that come with it. It will tell you what is needed and how to set it up. With it set up right I bet your close to $1000 in something you don't need for a 400 HP dd
 
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thanks Jeremy. Yes, you are right, I don't "need" it, but I really don't see any other options out there that would sit up higher, not run a belt, be mechanical, and not cause an oil pan leak. Most of this stuff discussed on these forums is by no way a "need", we fool with these trucks because we enjoy it and it gives us satisfaction to try different and unique things......in noway do I need a 400HP truck to drive to work either, but why not? Thanks for your insight, I'll let you know how it goes when I get one and run it.
 
rightwinger said:
thanks Jeremy. Yes, you are right, I don't "need" it, but I really don't see any other options out there that would sit up higher, not run a belt, be mechanical, and not cause an oil pan leak. Most of this stuff discussed on these forums is by no way a "need", we fool with these trucks because we enjoy it and it gives us satisfaction to try different and unique things......in noway do I need a 400HP truck to drive to work either, but why not? Thanks for your insight, I'll let you know how it goes when I get one and run it.
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Keating makes a aluminium drive coulping that would be ideal for the daily driver. also call and check with enterprise engine and ask them they was working on the same setup for the street
 
I forgot to turn on my electric pumps on a dyno run a couple of times. Oddly I made 1218rwhp with just a stock 12v lift pump. I daily drove it at over 600-700hp for several years with the stock pump before that so it's not something to be afraid of.
 
rightwinger said:
thanks Jeremy. Yes, you are right, I don't "need" it, but I really don't see any other options out there that would sit up higher, not run a belt, be mechanical, and not cause an oil pan leak. Most of this stuff discussed on these forums is by no way a "need", we fool with these trucks because we enjoy it and it gives us satisfaction to try different and unique things......in noway do I need a 400HP truck to drive to work either, but why not? Thanks for your insight, I'll let you know how it goes when I get one and run it.
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400hp is almost stock hp these days, the ? is how did we survive driving trucks with less than 200hp. I agree with Disturbed, complete overkill and not needed. For 400hp id just run a 12v lift pump.
 
i just plumbed and set up the waterman in my truck. including the pump, fuel lines, fittings, check valves and fuel cell, im into the entire fuel system for about $3000. you could buy a lot of 12v mechanical lift pumps with that much money...
 
Whitenight,

3K for the needed parts to install a waterman?? Are you running a fuel cell? Wow, that's definately more than I was wanting to spend. I would be curious to see how one is actually plumbed though, maybe just out of curiosity more than anything. Maybe a 12V pump would be the best option, I was just thinking it would not be able to keep a good enough flow to the p pump to keep it happy. Ron A has proved it will keep up just fine though....1218 RWHP is pretty impressive on a stock pump! White night, I am watching your build thread and enjoying reading it and seeing the progress, I assume all those 10,000 fittings you have on the table are the bulk of where that 3000.00 you have in the setup came from? Good luck with it and I hope it runs great when you're done.
 
I think one thing to remember is where you are reading about the efficiencies in a stock 12V pump. Was it on a website that is trying to talk you out of the stock lift pump on a 12V?

Read that RonA said. 1200HP on a stock lift pump... Should be end of discussion.
 
TMONEYDIESEL said:
...400hp is almost stock hp these days, the ? is how did we survive driving trucks with less than 200hp...
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Somehow I've managed to drive over 500k miles, moving tons of cars and freight, with both VE and 12 valve equipped trucks over the last 10 years.
Some of it was through very high mountains, grossing in excess of 27k, with a measly stock VE engine.

How I would react with even 325 horsepower is anyone's guess. :D
Giddy comes to mind. LOL

Mark.
 
I was reading about the "problematic" issues with a stock 12V pump on tork teck's web page, they are not selling pumps but they sell OFV's and the article seemed to be accurate and informative, however, Ron A's dyno run of over 1200 HP seems to throw a monkey wrench in that argument. Like I mentioned earlier, I am hoping that this build does better than 400 HP, but I get tired of seeing newbs get on here and say they are building a 1000 HP engine but seem to have very little practical information. I have been lurking on this forum for a while, but rarely post. I am setting my HP goals low and aiming more for reliability than anything else. I was really impressed with the "million mile cummins build" I read about in Diesel power magazine several years ago and am more concerned with building a dead reliable engine than squeezing every ounce of power out of it. I have built engines before, but never a Cummins, so I am a newb, and am appreciative of the information provided to me on here. Not every performance part I put on this engine is to gain HP, some is just for the added peace of mine, such as a cam retainer, better fuel filtration, Adjustable timing gear to prevent timing from slipping.....etc. So yes, some may view it as overkill but I view it as an ounce of prevention is worth......
 
Yes i am running a fuel cell. The thing is, the waterman is going to want a -10 or -12 supply to it, so its either put a sump with a -10 or -12 outlet on your factory existing fuel tank or do a different fuel tank option. In most cases a fuel cell. And yes all of those fitting and fuel lines alone made up more than half of the $3000~.
 
$1500 for fitting and hose are they made of gold

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 
That was with all my -12, -10, and -6 fittings, mostly 90* and straights, some weld in fittings, check valves, -12 stainless braided, -10 stainless braided and -6 stainless braided, a fuel filter, a coupld tee fittings and some other stuff. It came out to be rigjt around $1500 give or take
 
If I wasn't going over 700hp, a 12Valve piston pump is all I'd have. They are really handy when your voltage regulator goes on the fritz 250miles from home too. I never would have made it home if I had to run an electric fuel pump.
 
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