Fire ring vs. O-ring

mxhunter147

mxhunter147

Gear Head
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
187
Well, I've been searching for some time now, and can't quite find the answer I'm looking for.

I have an 06 dodge with 66/S483 twins and II 65lpm nozzles. Currently I'm just running the arp 425 studs with a stock gasket torqued to 150. I run between 85-90 psi and the head gasket has held so far, but I know it's only a matter of time before it lets go. So I'm looking at either fire ringing or o-ringing the head, since the motor is still in the truck. I would say I'm crouding 900hp on fuel.

The truck gets driven about 3-4 days a week. So would I be better off to go with the fire rings since I'm running such high boost, or go with the O-rings since it's a little more of a daily driver? I've heard about people getting 40,000+ miles on a set of fire rings, but is this just getting lucky?
 
Orings dont work with MLS gaskets. Do a fire ring job with 50% deck and 50% head cuts. Use .105 rings with a radius cut.
 
If your doin half and half chris, what do you cut for the depth of each cut? You still need to allow for some crush right, but would it be as much as if you were just cutting one side?
 
The motor is in the truck, and perfect. I know its better to do 50/50, but I'm not looking to pull the motor. So I guess fire rings in the head is the way to go. Are they really suitable for how daily driven my truck is though?
 
You run .020 in the head and the same in the block for a proper crush with radius grooves. The block can be cut while the head is off and the engine block still in the truck. With the boost you are running I wouldnt go any other way and Id recommend H-11 studs at minimum.
 
How would the grooves be cut with it on the truck? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just curious to how it's done.
 
I respectfully disagree Chris. I do not believe that fire rings are the way to go on any truck, especially a street truck. O-rings properly done on a 12v head gasket with some care taken with retorks etc will work better, especially with this fellow setup

Speaking of which, sorry to say but you are now where's close to 900 Hp without alot of nitrous to get there. With the existing setup you have you will have no problems with a o-ring and retorks
 
With an 66/73 and a s483 with a race cover, those nozzles which are rated at 250hp, dual pumps, killer B cam and springs, stage 3 water meth and an efi race tune, 850-900 is not out of the question in my opinion.

I have a buddy who did 789 with flux 3.5s and a 64/80 twins setup.

But to stay on topic, morkable you do have a good point, it's holding now so it looks like the o-rings with my current studs would be enough..
 
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Kev (Morkable) went well over 1000hp on the 425 studs and probably the worst o-ring job I have ever encountered. In fact the head gasket was still intact even after the rods exited the block stage left.
 
Kevin, the OP says 900 HP and 85-90 PSI so I gave him advice based on what he said he has. 80 PSI and up and I see multiple o-ring issues. I think alot of them are due to not complying with regular retorques but I cant control what a guy does and doesnt do when he leaves here. Ive personally done dozens of radius cut fire rings and havent had a single failure on the street yet. I had a good long talk with Haisleys before I started doing fire rings and thats the advice I got from them. They also told me anything under 80 PSI you can cut them all into the head or all into the block. Doing a proper initial torque takes care of alot of issues also. I have the right tooling to do block rings in the truck. Im willing to bet the OP is also doing some playing with the truck too if he is making that kind of power. If I do an o-ring job with a fibre gasket and the customer goes out and beats his truck and blows them out he will be pissed and expect me to fix it free or my name gets slandered. Its a tough call when you do this as a business.
 
dvst8r said:
Kev (Morkable) went well over 1000hp on the 425 studs and probably the worst o-ring job I have ever encountered. In fact the head gasket was still intact even after the rods exited the block stage left.
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Oh I know Kevin pushes the envelope alot. Its all a gamble when you do so. Playing comes with a price tag. I honor Kevins word enough he has me second guessing a few things, but I have sought out advice from Haisleys who are also known for pushing the envelope and everyone has their own idea of what works and for how long.
 
MLS and 625's. I wouldn't be into fire rings till after 100lbs boost.

I couldn't be bothered with orings. MLS then if you have to step up fire rings.
 
I have to admit that I mis read his engine specs when I first looked at them,,,, LOL for some reason I seen a s475,, they say the brain is the first thing to go,,, looks like I am on a downward spiral LOL
 
Joesixpack said:
MLS and 625's. I wouldn't be into fire rings till after 100lbs boost.

I couldn't be bothered with orings. MLS then if you have to step up fire rings.
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So would you say the 625s are better than the 12mm h11's? I've heard both ways on this. I didn't bottom tap these studs, but if I did new studs I certainly would.
 
Can't say anything bad about A1 stuff as I only have experience with ARP, but do believe ARP's 625 is a step up from H11. Dig into it more thats just off the hip in the shop here.
 
mxhunter147 said:
I have a buddy who did 789 with flux 3.5s and a 64/80 twins setup.
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First...

Until you dyno YOUR OWN TRUCK you don't know what you have!! I know someone who just finished a CR build with "all the right parts" and it dynoed 570:doh: Now with some work and tweaking, I have no doubt it will be in the 800+ range but its a classic example that a list of parts does not make xxx hp!

Second...

I run 95+ lbs. of boost and have o-rings (wire in block, receiver grooves in head) with ARP 425's and have no issues as long as I retorque it after every other race.

Also, a boost number is not what blows headgaskets!*bdh* It's tuning and cylinder pressure!!!


Third...

A 900 hp street truck is STUPID and DANGEROUS for not only you, but the people around you!!!!:badidea:
 
Machine the head and the block and then take two cracks at so you can re-torque after every other race just so you can hold what the MLS will already with 625's.

And by me boost is a good measure of potential, correct tune a given. And in that case more boost more cylinder pressure all else equal.
 
Dockboy said:
First...

Until you dyno YOUR OWN TRUCK you don't know what you have!! I know someone who just finished a CR build with "all the right parts" and it dynoed 570:doh: Now with some work and tweaking, I have no doubt it will be in the 800+ range but its a classic example that a list of parts does not make xxx hp!

Second...

I run 95+ lbs. of boost and have o-rings (wire in block, receiver grooves in head) with ARP 425's and have no issues as long as I retorque it after every other race.

Also, a boost number is not what blows headgaskets!*bdh* It's tuning and cylinder pressure!!!


Third...

A 900 hp street truck is STUPID and DANGEROUS for not only you, but the people around you!!!!:badidea:
Click to expand...


I was only stating that the truck should be in that range- which is why I said it SHOULD be around there. I have read about countless trucks with similar setups making about that hp.

I know boost isn't the only thing that will blow your head, however its a good indication of how much psi the head is seeing.

And finally, a truck is only as dangerous as you make it. This truck is extremely streetable with efi live, or even my smarty with the tq turned down and you only go as fast as your right foot makes you. Driving a truck with a lot of power at the same speed as a stock truck is no different..
 
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