head torquing and heat cycles ?

Mine are ARP2000 studs for reference. One pull from 125 to 140 on mine, best way to get a legit torque reading. I don't think a 140 hot is really 15lb more, just more of a way to sink the head gasket down to seal oil and water.
 
MoPower05 said:
Why would you O ring then use stock head bolts? Am I missing something?
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Because im cheap and i feel for the money spent it will hold better. I have $350 in o-rings and new headbolts, compared to $450 plus for just standard arp studs. I think the o-rings/stock bolts is a better option when you dont have money falling out of your pockets...
 
mathews8pt said:
Because im cheap and i feel for the money spent it will hold better. I have $350 in o-rings and new headbolts, compared to $450 plus for just standard arp studs. I think the o-rings/stock bolts is a better option when you dont have money falling out of your pockets...
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I think it is smart to do what you did, although I wouldn't of bought new bolts.
 
MoPower05 said:
Why would you O ring then use stock head bolts? Am I missing something?
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Because it works, plain and simple. Most, not all, but most aren't making a ton of power or boost that run this setup. I should be in the 400-450whp and 40-42psi range. IMO, niether justify $400+ head bolts. I wouldn't have even o-ringed the head if it hadn't been leaking. If I were to start pushing more power or do twins like I'm thinking, then I'll switch to studs, maybe. I like proving people wrong and generally like going about things the hard way.
 
95ram said:
Because it works, plain and simple. Most, not all, but most aren't making a ton of power or boost that run this setup. I should be in the 400-450whp and 40-42psi range. IMO, niether justify $400+ head bolts. I wouldn't have even o-ringed the head if it hadn't been leaking. If I were to start pushing more power or do twins like I'm thinking, then I'll switch to studs, maybe. I like proving people wrong and generally like going about things the hard way.
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The HP calc on here says im averaging ~660hp at the wheels while running the 1/4mile. I also daily drive my truck so they see the normal heat cycles that most trucks see. IMO they will hold a lot more then what your thinking. I will say i only have ~2k miles on this engine so far, but my last engine(225k miles) had stock gasket/bolts @ 135ftlbs and i never blew a gasket while making mid to high 500's.
 
Sure the oring + over-torqued head bolts will hold it down, but Id imagine they can still stretch and allow the head to lift.
Seems a little risky to me when so much time + money is involved in resurfacing the head and replacing a gasket.
If youre under of 60PSI with moderate timing Id say get arp 425's. I had plans to go higher and Ive had the head off a few times already so I just went to the 625's.
 
My head is in the shop getting O-rings right now. Supposed to get it back Wednesday, and I have a day at the track planned for Saturday. I'm going to put it on and torque it to 120 Wednesday night, Thursday night I'll torque it to 125. Plan to run it some on Friday, then torque to 130 after a cool down. I'll check everything Saturday morning, then run the hell out it Saturday afternoon.

After all of the work to do it, I decided not to chance any of the bolts (I was running allen bolts), so I went studs. ARPs were out of stock, so I got the 12mm from Extreme-Studs. I've got high hopes for them, but I am a little concerned about the low recommend torque, and possible fatigue of the H13 steel though. They'll either be Great!!!... or not.
 
mathews8pt said:
The HP calc on here says im averaging ~660hp at the wheels while running the 1/4mile. I also daily drive my truck so they see the normal heat cycles that most trucks see. IMO they will hold a lot more then what your thinking. I will say i only have ~2k miles on this engine so far, but my last engine(225k miles) had stock gasket/bolts @ 135ftlbs and i never blew a gasket while making mid to high 500's.
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Which is why if/when I do twins next summer I'll probably stick with the stock bolts. If it doesn't hold I'm out $110 for a gasket and a day to replace it. If it holds I get to disprove all the naysayers.
 
I had the extreme studs, torqued them to 145 with no problems. On my last head gasket saga I think it will finally hold since I did it right. I torqued to 145 with the cheaper arp studs with firerings. Warmed it up without water hot to the touch on the head and did a retorque at 145. All the nuts moved half to three quarters of a turn. Did a cold retorque the next morning and nothing moved. Drove about 300 miles and did another hot retorque at running temp. 6 to 8 nuts moved about a fifth of a turn. Tried the ones I could get to today and nothing moved at 145.

I really think the hot retorque on firerings or orings is the trick. My thinking is there is a lot of heat right in that area and the metal might be softer till you get a set on the gasket.

On the extreme-studs, I think the torque value sent with the studs is way to low. I blew the stock gasket at 20 lbs. of boost set that way without any retorques. I blew it at 40 with the stock gasket at 145 with out retorques.

After pming back and forth with dzlfrk, and doing mine these need retorqued or checked till the nuts don't move. Just my opinion.
 
I'm a big fan of the "hot" retorque as well. Not hot as in overheating, or right after a pass, but while the engine is warm for sure.
 
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